New thread.

Hm, please remind me, is Kai wounded and in heed of healing or is this just a missed edit?

That might have been old from the original Kai way back when you fought the rats he took a really nasty wound. I think since then that has been resolved due to time.

I'm not sure I follow the description of what's going on with this table (assuming it's important of course, if it's not then that's fine, just let me know).

Initially there was an "orb".



Now there's the description of a "square object" that appears to correspond to a matching hole in the table, which are both in the middle of the table.

How are the orb and the "square object" related?  Is the orb on top of the square object?  Are they side by side in the middle of the table?

Crap sorry about that. My notes are terrible. Let me correct that.

Generally expecting the people to be out of the secret room, maybe out of LoS of the orb, but on call.

I noticed that a few people are rolling and it's adding the rolls. Make sure when you roll you leave the default on.

In Savage worlds, you don't add the d6 that you roll with your skill, ability, etc.

You roll both and take the best of the two dice. Example:

you roll 2d6, you get 6, 5. You roll the 6 again because it explodes and gets a 3.

your total is not 6+5+3 = 14

It's 9. (6+3)

Your only keeping the highest out of the two rolls. Hope this clears up some confusion.
This message was last edited by the GM at 21:18, Thu 28 Mar.

I guess you mean the roll would be 9 (6+3) not 11, as the original rolls (if I understood you right) are 6 and 5, and the acing roll it's a 3.

If the dice roller is set as d6,d6 in the manually enter dice (with the reroll max and record each die boxes checked), this would be shown as 9(6+3),5

Doh! Correct. Sorry thanks for that catch.

In reply to Vaelan Nightshade (msg # 7):

It depends on what it is, if it's a damage roll you do add the result of both dice together.  If it's an ability or trait check, well explained above.

That is correct but you can still keep the dice separate. I can manually add them for damage. It's not that big of a deal. If you want to switch back and forth that is fine too.

Also and update is coming for experience. It will no longer be drive by number of post. I have decided against this. Instead we will go with the standard milestone method. I will be getting with each of you at the end of this for rewards and balancing out the experience more without taking experience away from other players.

Just to be sure i understand the sitation well: we're where the star is, and the combat was heading up on the map. Is this right?

We're heading North/up from the star.  The dead end where Jenkins felt the moving air is east/right of the star.  Combat was around there, but the hidden room isn't on the map so there's no exact pinpoint.

I am going to update the map. It's on my work computer. I need to get it off and move it to my drive.

Forgot to chime in about the switch in experience- more than fine with that. I was always a fan of milestone/XP after each "adventure" kind of award instead of any other metric.

Lol,I'm not. I've had about four advancements so far, while normally on RPOL it's quite possible to go an entire year and you're still on the same adventure, still no advancement.

Then again, the way our beloved GM had it set up, there was plenty of advancement early on but it got slower and slower, thousands of xp between advancements. So say player X currently has 300 posts, and we have been playing for what, 9 months? So 400 posts/year, so when you need 2000 xp to get the next advancement then it gets ridiculous.

We could do it 250 posts or 500 posts between advancements or something. We could have it based off average posts, so we are all moving at the same rate. We could have it that Liriam amd I are donating posts to slower posting members.

Or, if we are doing it the "completing adventure" route, I would recommend more smaller amounts, ie after we complete the house, after we complete the maze we get something. Not after we defeat the Jester which could be another couple of years.

The good news I have a way to combat that too. Rather than getting advancements for posting. There will be two advancement tracks.

Personal - Personal will only happen when your character actives something that moves their story forward. Not related to the current plot.
Milestone - Will be focused on just minor/major events that happen in the game that create advancements similar to normal play.

While this sounds par for the course. It's not going to be at all. You will find that as your personal story gets woven into the plot there will be a more of chance for you to grow. Right now we have several characters with personal stories already moving forward. I have a few that we have not touched on but I would expect that over time I am going to grow this out.

Jut to be sure: I guess room #5 i the secret room from where Lirian took the orb. Is this right?

That is correct.

Anyone in the back can feel free to make that roll for notice.

I have tried updating this post for the last two days. Today it will be updated. Sorry for the wait.

Thanks Vaelan!

So it looks like there's a door beyond the area where I assume the pit is.

If that's correct, how onerous will the missing bit of floor be to cross over?

You can do it without a problem.

I thought this after I turned on my compuer last night and couldn't say it until now: Lirian should have applied a -2 to his roll due to Jenkins wounds, so in fact her spell failed.

If teh GM agrees, She'll spend a benny to reroll it and I'll edit the post.

That sounds right from what I am reading.

Done, then she had to spend 2 bennies)

Where do you read it? I clearly remember this rule from the earlier edition, but cannot find it now under p. 96 "Healing", nor under p. 162 "Healing".

Also, what people think of healing Jenkins to full? She's not taking the lead, so I am not sure.
This message was last edited by the player at 13:51, Sat 06 Apr.

Full's fine with me.

Right.  The healing spell in the swade fantasy companion is a straight roll.  Heal 1 wound with a success, 2 with a raise.



Edit: So I was curious and went looking.  In previous editions when using the Healing skill, you took the wound penalties of the person being healed as a penalty to your roll.  That did not apply to the Heal spell.  In SWADE they removed that penalty from the skill, and the Heal spell still works the same.
This message was last edited by the player at 15:30, Sat 06 Apr.

SWADE Core Book, page 162, under Healing spell (bold is mine):


Not sure if it changed on the fantasy Companion, as I have no access to it (not that I had the wish to spend those bennies ;))

Huh.


My version of SWADE doesn't have that text.




The text for the Healing spell is identical in the Fantasy Companion.


Not sure if a penalty was included in SWADE at some point, or re-added at some point.  I think the SWADE version I have is still the original digital download from the Kickstarter.  So if they updated things at one point I might have an outdated version.

Ok, I've checked it and the text Lirian has quoted is indeed present in v4.2, but not in the more recent v5.7. You can find both versions online if anyone finds it worth checking. The new one reads like this: https://i.ibb.co/mX6K2YC/image.png

I have a full PDF with that text, but not sure which exact version. Which do we use for this game? Whatever is the most recent or a specific one?
This message was last edited by the player at 16:41, Sat 06 Apr.

Just to pile on, I took a snip of my pdf version and I match with Quentin:

https://i.imgur.com/qHaoRKw.png

I grabbed my physical copy from the Kickstarter, and it matches the PDF perfectly. Interesting.  Is version 4.2 one of the versions they had before they settled on the version that went to print?

I'm not certain how to tell the different versions.

I just went and checked what I have available via PEGInc and DriveThruRPG and the files there are updated to the "Fifth Printing" (according to the credits page) and have a 2023 copyright citation.


The version I have been using does not state which printing it is, and is cited as copyright 2019.

While the "Fifth printing" definitely has some sort of updates (as the Healing power text is now split between pages 162 and 163) it's unclear what.


I love the convenience of digital but I'm surprised this is the first time I think I've run into version issues, and I'm annoyed that if publishers are going to keep updating files like software iterations they should at least include patch notes or a changelog in the file or something.  *shakes fist and yells at cloud*

Same here.

I didn't expect this issue to arise, as I expected the rules to be consistent along the SADE version... I just intended to be honest in the use of the rules as I have them.

Of course, I won't complain if the first roll is what counts and Lirian saves two bennies ;).

Now it's up to Vaelan, I guess...
This message was last edited by the player at 15:15, Mon 08 Apr.

Honestly Lirian did it right. For future reference:
Fantasy companion > Swade 4.2 rules

Fantasy companion has more updated spells and a few other changes that I do not believe that have been up to date. All the companions are the most recent version of the rules.

Sorry I will be getting back into the groove today. This week and last Friday was a nightmare.

So I posted to Lirian but this is important for everyone to know:

I didn't realize what you were doing because I was in and out. Okay, so let's read the text.



She is Wild card so she is good there.

So first you would need to spend bennies just magic points. That's really all that is required. Only if you are trying to reroll do you need to spend Benny but I am thinking you are going to need to save them for the end anyway.

Second, there is no -2 unless you are wounded. So technically we can look at your rolls and decide.

Total: MP burned: 9mp

07:23, Sat 06 Apr: Secret Roll: Lirian rolled 5,0 using d8-2,d6-2, rerolling max with rolls of 7,2.  (Spending a benny) rerolling perform: singuing Song of Health (-2 due to Jenkins wounds). – 5,0
07:22, Sat 06 Apr: Secret Roll: Lirian rolled 0,2 using d8-2,d6-2, rerolling max with rolls of 2,4.  (Spending a benny) rerolling perform: singuing Song of Health (-2 due to Jenkins wounds). – 0,2
06:49, Fri 05 Apr: Lirian rolled 2,4 using d8,d6, rerolling max with rolls of 2,4.  Perform: singuing Song of Health. –

3 wounds soaked due to the magic.

Well, if there's no -2, then the first roll just achieved the desired result (healing 1 wound), and so no more bennies nor MPs would be used (as was the original post and intent)...

Then Quentinn gave him the potion, healing Jenkis to full health...

EDIT: and, in any case, I guess one can also reroll a magic roll by using bennies (though, seen in prespective, as a bennie can be exchanged for 5 MPs, it has not much sense to do so for a 3 MPs spell unless hurried...)
This message was last edited by the player at 14:36, Mon 08 Apr.

Ah, it's good to be reminded about that bit. I've never used it in previous editions (wasn't an option then?) and completely missed it this time around.

I need to clear up some things about your potions also. I'll pm you so it makes the clean up easier.

According the version I own of the Core Book (please, review your latter prints), page 90, bennies may be used to:

• Reroll a trait
• Recover from shaken
• Soak rolls
• Draw a new action card (damn, I forgot about this, and Lirian has not been lucky on it to now...)
• Reroll damage (inflicted, not received)
• Regain Power Points (exchange one benny for 5 PP)
• Influence the story (this may include many things, to discuss with the GM)

About regaining PP, (the issue on hand), wile not expliciting it, the use of the word regaining (instead of increasing, or gaining) hints me it's up to your maximum (but I'm probably the least indicated to discuss semantic issues, as English is my third language, while I guess it's native for most of you).

If so, I'm afraid Alchemists, as they use their PP to make the potions, not to use them, and this takes hours (at least on Fantasy Companion for Explorer's Edition, not so sure for SWADE proper), I don't believe they can, as they have their PP invested on the potions, and cannot regain them until they are used.

Of course, that is my interpretation, and, as always, is up to the GM, whiose interpretation is law...

Nope. That is correct including the power points.

So there is some confusion with the Jenkins.

She feel down the pit and took 3 wounds plus shaken. Lirian healed 1 wound after correcting her post but she didn't spend any Bennies.

Quentin cleared another wound with his roll.

So Jenkins right now still has one wound. Unless Lirian or Quentin want to make another roll to try to soak her last wound and spend the PP.

English is your third language Liriam! Wow, that's amazing! Your English language ability is much better than many native speakers!

I also speak three languages, but the level of the other two is nowhere near fluent. Probably good high school level.

Kudos to you, I'm impressed!

In fact this can be missleading, as I have two native ones, Catalan and Castillan (Spanish)

I guess it depends on the amount of practice. I've learned my second language in all sort of schools, up to high school, and know it *way* worse than English, which I formally learned in a year and regularly use because of my job in IT (and later the internets, because those are largely not German).

My French is was good high school level because I got a crush on a girl who loved France and was top of the school in that area and wanted to live in France, and within the space of a year I jumped from D band to B band French...

But it's rusty as I have almost never used it since, amd now if I make a sentence it's fine until I forget a word and then the Chinese one jumps in instead. I have a pet theory that we have an "other" language in our brain, so secondary, tertiary languages can get confused.

My Mandarin became good enough to get by in the country, which means basically ordering food, buying and selling, going places, weather, I have/I want/ineed/I don't want etc etc so basically good high school stuff, but not enough to read a newspaper or discuss politics. Since then I speak Mandarin at home, but it has evolved into a weird Chinglish variant and my tones are shot to hell and I sometimes say "I want to eat socks" instead of "I want to eat duck".

It is an iron rule of life that when you hear "I'm sorry English isn't my first language" you then invariably hear a long stream of the most correct, well enunciated/correctly spelled English with superior grammar and a larger vocabulary than you as a native monolingual speaker will ever have.

Does Castillan use the vosotros form?

I don't think Jenkins needs to be healed completely, she's done a pretty good job of staying out of combat until now.

GM, could you make this OOC thread a Notice amd remove the Notice thing from the old OOC thread?

She is healed fully. Quentin was able to point out that her wounds are shaken and 2 wounds which was correct. So with Lirian and Quentin potion she is fully healed.

I was wrong. Thanks for the correction Quentin.

I guess this is because when you're not using your own language you're more careful in all this issues, mostly when writing, even if only because your less secure about them.


Yes, "vosotros" is the equivalen to "you" when it's plural.
This message was last edited by the player at 15:12, Tue 09 Apr.

In fact, the potions are not "officially" created until used or given to somebody. If given and used on the spot, they are thus used and can be recovered as normal. As SWADE Fantasy Companion would put it:


It actually goes even deeper:


This is in contrast to, say, the Weird Science arcane background of previous editions, where the pools were separate per power (in fact, per device which is made to manifest that power).

So, I believe, that part is good. There is, however, a more problematic part. Quentin does not have his alchemist's bag with him. That ran off with the horse. Quentin does have two bandoliers, off which he pulls various potions as quoted above. This whole setup was ok'd by the GM at character creation in the sense that Quentin can activate stuff off the bandoliers and does not have to haul around a bag of glassware through all those combat encounters, but while I believe the bag of glassware is needed for something some time or the other, it never occured to me to clarify the details. I'm pretty sure Quentin can regain his power points by spending bennies. Other than that... maybe he'll indeed need to recover that bag.
This message was last edited by the player at 18:19, Tue 09 Apr.

Well considering that you took the flaw material components, you for sure can use your bandoliers but you will run out of materials at some point. Still not really clear to how that's going to happen but we need to work on coming up with a solution for that otherwise, the alchemist can just pull magic out of their hat. There is some limitation to each magic class and that's the flaw of the alchemist to me.

As far as spending bennies I don't see why not. I know that as an alchemist you can't make potions with additional extra effects according to the fantasy companion which means you are stuck with the spell as is.

As for the PP this brings me back to what I said before. I think unlike other magic users, you are going to need to sit down every day and say I craft X potions for use. That way we know what is on your person. While you can still craft new potions it's going to be hard to do that in the middle of combat or anything involving that so it's going to take time for that to take place.

Then the Alchemist has changed a lot from Explorer's edition...

On it, the Alchemist was closer to what the "Artificier" Edge is, but for potions. So, they made the potion and invested their PPs on it (and rolled their skill them). So, in fact they losed freedom of action (as they had already decided the spells to cas beforehand, when making the potions) and the capacity to recharge an immeditly use them, but they gained the fact they could give their potions to others for them to use and the fact taht they had already rolled the skill, so they knew the result beforehand too.

But then Bards have also changed a lot from Eplorer's version, where the closer thing was the Troubadur Edge..

As far as material components go, letting two bandoliers with a total weight of 4 give a finite supply of what a weight 5 alchemist bag has an infinite supply seems quite reasonable. That is, if we are talking amounts like 8 fire breath potions, 7 healing potions and 1 bottle of speak language pills (or however many potions per bandolier). We can also retain the inability to craft permanent alchemical items without the alchemist's bag. As long as this does not involve pre-allocating PPs and locking casting options, I'm fine with that.


What do you mean by that? I know about the inability to have Power Edges. Or do you also mean no Power Modifiers?
This message was last edited by the player at 04:51, Wed 10 Apr.

Power modifiers.

and I don't care about what you keep on your person that is fine as long as we are tracking them. I do expect you to expend PP upon drinking a potion or giving a potion to someone in the case of Jenkins. I don't expect you to expend your current supply of potions but realize this...you may have the materials....for 8 fire points but you are limited by PP. Does that make sense?

In other words there is no godly way for you to use 8 fire potions without rest or spending bennies to recover PP. Assuming that math calculates over your PP.

When it was described as a "small chain" I assumed it was a singular chain disappearing into an appropriately sized hole.

If it's a bunch of chains, then is there just 1 big hole with room between the chains?


If where the chains potentiall lead to up above isn't important at all, that's fine too.  Just hard to figure out what's important and what's not sometimes.

Bunch of chains.

Good question. So the ceiling disappears into the darkness similar to the first room you originally explored. The chains goes up..but you can't make out what they are attached to.

I ask because using vosotros where I come from will get you slapped lol

Do you have an issue with them only on alchemist or in general? Would you mind if I pick another Arcane Background the next time I advance?

Unless we're running into another errata issue, the above is just, not true, I think?

Alchemists are restricted from using the Selective power modifier, but the rest are fair game (at least in my copy of the rules).

So you are correct. However, when I search my pdf up and down for selective power modifiers it only brings up that in the Alchemist section of the book. I wish they had more context about what that covers.

Never mind, I found it in the main book in one spot. It would be nice if they just included that text in the fantasy companion. Piper is right and I am wrong again (a growing trend) you can use Power Modifiers Quentin however, with things like area affect you can't select one target, hence the selective.

In reply to Vaelan Nightshade (msg # 65):

I've got a section titled "Power Modifiers" on page 98.

I can cast 10 basic bursts off my power points, but with modifiers available, I won't do basic bursts a whole lot, so 8 total off a bandolier should be about enough (of course, up to PP limit). If I ever plan to cast more in a row, can I just haul the alchemist's bag? And yes, no selective modifier.
This message was last edited by the player at 15:49, Thu 11 Apr.

I have very mixed feelings about power modifiers.  On the one hand, kind of cool, on the other, I feel like they encourage a lot of munchkinism.

I'm getting so many Rick vibes from Quentin, it's adorable XD

I think it's a way that savage worlds can make very broad powers and then allow the users to customize them. Honestly I wish you had to spend points to buy them and they just modified the existing powers. I think that would be a better solution than just giving someone access to them because yes, they cost PP but be limited by PP sucks. The average character is not going to max out on PP.

As a matter of fact the math for PP comes to

10 (to start)
Take PP edge at every rank +5

Means you hit around 30. At legendary you can take it +2 for every level of legendary but then you are only looking at 40. And that's a lot of edges spent in basically nothing.

I believe that's the way they've generally done things in the super hero companions, or at least gave the option for.  So it's entirely possible depending on how much you want to mix and match various rule sets.

I like having them as an option just to pick and choose from as needed.  Characters generally don't have a plethora of powers so it can be a good way to gain that occasional edge in an unusual situation.

How high is the thing at the moment?

Right now any roll to shoot or hit it is at Long range. Its at a point where the darkness fades away from the ceiling level but not so high that you can't see his full body. The modifier to shoot with magic or otherwise would be -4 due to range but because he is so big you get a +2 to hit. So total modifier of -2.

It is possible for Alice to ready his bow and shot at it?

She has beencarrying her bow all day, and she has yet to use it...

I don't think Alice can but Lirian can certainly try. ;)

Sorry again for the conmfusion...

You are fine.

I think my problem with modifiers is that when I've run Savage Worlds, one of the complaints players have is that you really get more than you pay for with Arcane Backgrounds and it creates a perceived power gap between PCs (even the way I run it, I just have one XP track and if you do something awesome you advance the track).  Boost/Lower alone, while not sexy, is damn effective.  Basically, there's, among my players, a feeling that the characters with powers are actually doing more because they're capable of more, even if they appreciate that the difference isn't so vast like it is in other systems.  That's not an uncommon problem either.  I've actually considered house rules to give non Arcane characters "Mundane Backgrounds" to give them a little more to make it feel more even.

And now, you can use powers even cheaper if you restrict them to just yourself, basically encouraging a selfish approach.

On the other hand I appreciate all the points made, they are cool.  But that leaves me with mixed feelings.  But I try not to worry about perfect balance so much any more either, because it's just not possible.  It's too subjective for one thing.

Also Fear checks always amuse me, the same character can be brave as hell one minute and terrified of her shadow the next.
This message was last edited by the player at 23:30, Fri 12 Apr.

Jenkins succeeded in not being scared by the monstrosity.

Can she roll to throw off the shaken effect from the fall?

Characters automatically make a spirit roll to recover from the shaken condition each round on their turn.

While I don't know if there's a specific ruling somewhere that shaken characters automatically recover when a combat ends, it would take an extremely long string of bad luck for a character to not succeed at the roll within a few rounds if you were to game it out like that, so everyone I've ever played with goes with that assumption.

So realistically Jenkins should have recovered a while ago.

Do we act now or do we wait for the fear to resolve and the cards to be dealt? If we act now, Quentin leaves the room and remains in the corridor behind the corner.

Was Hunter the only one who failed?

Of those who've rolled. Kai is still to go, but haven't been around for some time, so not sure if we should wait for him or let the GM roll. Or maybe we declare he is outside.
This message was last edited by the player at 09:40, Sat 13 Apr.

Kai appears to come and go. I'd say he's outside.

Assuming the 1d6,1d6 roll is the Spirit roll I'd say Olix also failed...

Nope that's the casting roll. I'm a very hearty individual. It's the spellcasting I'm not so good at apparently.

OK, then I missread your rolls. Sorry, my fault (I didn't see the ":" after the "Trying to cast Deflection" sentence, and assumed it was tied to the the previous roll).

I find it realistic. Not only this happens in most (if not all) games, be them wargames or RPGs, but I've seen (IRL) the same person acting very calmed on day, and freezing panicked another one before the same situation.

Human (and I guess otehr races) mind is not predictable, nor is fear...

+2 wild, +2 joker, -2 multi-action which I see in the rolls, so the math seems to check out. Long range... well, not so much. Ready the action?

To Lirian: Yep, I did calculate that +2 to everything, that's why I went wild.

To Quentin: Long range...? I assumed that thing was close to us, enough to cover it with the free Move. I didn't read anything about it being farther, what'd I miss...?

Post #73, this same thread:



Of course, with a Joler, you may wait for it to descend more (if it does)...

Damn... That got lost in the OOC chat between power modifiers. My bad.

I mean in that case I will instead cast Smite, it makes no sense for me to just wait because I rolled "high enough". GM is that ok?

...aaand I did miss the +2 size modifier. Does it apply to melee attacks? It's not in melee and it does not chenge the outcome of Olyx's rolls, but good to know nonetheless.

It usually is, though it could be built into the fact its Parry is kind of low.

lol for some reason I thought its Parry was much higher, but that's okay I'll leave it as it is

Nice, Aeryss!

This time you're the hero amd everyone else sits it out!

Yes, Lirian just hopes her arrow does not hurt anyone when falling back...
This message was last edited by the player at 12:08, Sun 14 Apr.

They're some good rolls, but let's not count chickens yet, it still has bennies and so does the GM.

Well, If this distance means you cannot reach the spiderrat, the GM might assume that, as you both had Jockers, you interrupted it if it closes for combat...


True, but that would not deny you Aeress acted very well this time and may be proud of it

This is true, the last couple of encounters it seems like Aeress didn't do a whole lot due to bad rolls or just the timing.

GM, ratboi's up next, and then a Jenkins. Could you just confirm range for Jenkins's Pistol, assuming she's at the doorway?

It's consider long range but his hit target is pretty high so it's -4, +2 for size for a total of -2 to roll to hit against parry of 6 so effectively 8 target number to hit.

How does one parry bullets?

You do roll against Parry when using a ranged weapon in melee (it represents the "assholes and elbows" nature of extreme CQB, your opponent hitting your gun arm to deflect your aim etc.), but if it's at long range you would resolve it as a ranged attack and apply those penalties for long range (-4 for long).

I suspect the Marshal meant you still have to roll a 6 on the die to hit because -4 and +2 nets -2, and 6-2=4.

Thanks. And a Wound a further -2, so needing an 8?

Sorry, don't have rules on my phone.

That would make sense to me.

Jenkins has no wound penalties.

It would be helpful if we had a map of this room as right now the scale is a bit hard to figure out.

Based on Jenkins being at Long Range of a black powder pistol from the doorway to wherever this fight is happening, the room must be pretty big.

I know the GM has mentioned the spider creature being high up initially, but I'm assuming that isn't the case now, or either all those melee attacks that were rolled are moot.  Or they'll have to be considered as held actions until the rat monster drops down into melee range on its action card, at which point Jenkins might be in a different range increment, or in a position to move closer.

Unless, as stated, the room is very big which means even with the monster within melee range of the attacking folks, Jenkins can't move enough distance to get any closer to the rat monster without still being between 21 and 40 yards away.



The issue with Savage Worlds is that it's still, at its core, based on a miniatures game, so you really need to either throw a bunch of rules out in favor or increasing the Fast, Furious, and Fun quotient, or use a scaled combat map so folks can figure things out for themselves.

I agree, and I was pointing out that the monster goes before Jenkins, so if Aeryss can hit it with the spear, and then the monster moves or dies or does what exactly, is it then still out of range for Jenkins? Or would she be firing into combat?

Anyway, I believe it's Spidermanrat's turn now...

I'll work out the map tonight. Just keep in mind it's going to be a flat map and not anything showing scale in terms of height.

So long as the height of any enemies above ground level is given somewhere in a post in a useful measure of units (inches, feet, etc) I think that will be a big help in determining the mechanical bits like range.

The map also doesn't need to be fancy, if that makes things easier.  A version of the grid map like you're posting for our progress through this dungeon, scaled so each square is 1" or something, with icons/tokens for folks and enemies should be sufficient.

Yeah so I just posted. I am trying to keep elevation in mind. Right now he is very high to the ceiling. He was lower before.

Yes, he is nasty. Yes, you can beat him. Good luck!

I' not sure I understand the situation.

As I undertand it, we're all entangled by the chains, and Aeres and Olyx aer affected by damage (not sure how much), as the spider lowered and raised again, now beign again at long range. Is this right?

Has the psider/rat any damage remaining?
This message was last edited by the player at 16:55, Mon 15 Apr.

Yup. It has 1 wound currently.

And only people of close proximity are entangled. Kai, Hunter, and anyone else out of the things range is not entangled. (This is where as map could help- working on that.)

The reach of the chains themselves cover range: 10 which is the creatures smarts. If you are entangled you have to break free against TN 8 making a strength-2 or athletics roll. It takes up your turn and while you are entangled you can't move and are vulnerable. **NOTE** they are not bound.

Screwed up on the (tentacle) legs should've had -1 to attack. Still hits Olyx. Sorry. :)

Spcifically, is Lirian (who last turn had shot her bow) entangled? Not sure how close she was...

Also, I understand the cages with the mouselings are now fallen on ground, among the characters, and now is time to act (by order) for Piper, Jenkins, Lirian and Quentin…

If you are attacking with a ranged weapon. I would say you were out side of the range of the entanglement.

"Entangled, not Bound" normally means Distracted, not Vulnerable. I'd like to have it confirmed one way or another. And, if Distracted, also declared if the penalty applies to "get free" rolls (I think it should not, but not sure).

They changed the rules. SWADE rules have been updated for Vulnerable but not distracted.

Does Jenkins have to roll anything to free anyone else?

Then I guess this also has changed from the version I have...



The dificulty to be freed is 8? And how would otehr people help (according the rules it would be by Breaking Things rules, but I guess this is quite difficult with those chains...

OTOH he chains have just fallen over, not being purposefully entangled on them

The new ruling is in SWADE Fantasy Companion on page 75. If chains are like swords etc, maybe they'll have hardness of 10, subject to wild attacks, but not subjects to acing dice.

But she doesn't need to break them, she just needs to untie them, and they're not even tied in a knot. They are just wrapped around people's arms and legs, which makes it difficult for them,  but not for anybody else.

Not at the location she was at.

Vulnerable according to the new rules. TN 8 because of the weight of the chains. If it were heavier they would be 10. Bound is Vulnerable and distracted.

Doesn't say anything about a free roll. Let me check into this.

Entangle is a full action to escape:

https://rpg.stackexchange.com/...m-entangle-an-action

makes the most amount of sense based upon the confusing texts. Also double Entangle is Bound. -2 is a base modifier which distracted then adds to...all wound modifiers also make escaping harder.

Never apologize for the dice! That's why we play this game.

If I read the rolls correctly though, the 15 attack did 4 damage, and the 13 attack did 5 damage? I have Toughness 7(2), so unless there's 2 AP nothing happens, right?

...I mean it rolling 2 and 3 with d12 is pretty lucky for me.

I don't think so. More likely that is 15 attack for 13 damage, where 13 is 6+7 from two most recent rolls (this thing somehow adds 1d12 instead of 1d6 on a hit with a raise).

You are right, I have no idea how I got that confused.

13 damage is... ouch. Gonna spend a Benny to soak that.
17:30, Today: Olyx Mintarios rolled 4,3 using 1d6,1d6, rerolling max ((4,3)).
Ok, so I guess that's one success, so assuming no AP, 13 damage with 7(2) is 1 wound, and I managed to soak it. If it's AP2... then I get 1 Wound instead of 2.

I'm not sure if Olix was hit by oney one leg. If so, you're right, though you remain shaken if you are still wounded (if you only received one wound and soaked it, you're not shaken either)

SWADE Core Book, page 96


Of course, unless it also changed in latter printings...

Map is coming up shortly. To make everything easier.

I think either Quentin's position or Quentin's action is off. To sum how we end up where we are now:
1. Quentin was called in from the corridor to take a look at the state of the prisoners.
2. He came and started looking at the nearest(?) inhabited cage.
3. Scary rat-spider appears. Some people posted some actions, including shooting and running in fear.
4. Quentin wasn't in supernatural fear, but was very much in normal practical fear, so I have posted OOC that if we are allowed any actions, he'd be moving out of the room.
5. It was not(?) confirmed any way or another, so I assumed Quentin did not get that action and was Entangled by the chain of the very cage which content he was examining.
6. Quentin attempted to break free, without success.
7. And now he's painted in the corridor.

I mean, I do want to end up in the corridor, but I am totally unsure how got there.
This message was last edited by the player at 11:15, Wed 17 Apr.

Sorry I forgot you came into look at the cage. Give me a second. I'll update the map.

Dungeon map updated.

Hunters not there, he ran off and failed his spirit roll last round.

For the people who are stuck. Here's a hint:

You can still take multi actions and you might as well if you fail your first roll.

Not that it would had any effect this turn, but shouldn't it have the -1 for its wound?
This message was last edited by the player at 20:54, Wed 17 Apr.

Not if it heals. ;)

What has it done the last two turns?

As you ask, and unless I missed something::

• On first round it descended and attacked, was wounded by Olix and Aeress and climbed again. Lirian aimed.
• On second round (current), Lirain has shot (no real effect) and it attacked again...

As I've seen, there have been no more turns...

BTW. I edited this post, as it was erroneous:


This message was last edited by the player at 20:55, Wed 17 Apr.

I believe this is the healing that was being referred to.

I reached the same conclusion: it heals as it sucks the mouselings life force, and Lirian hates this...

ding, ding, ding....+1 benny piper.

And there are lots of cages, they are made of a strange metal, with locks that the keys don't fit? With no obvious way to release them, such as a lever?

(clarifying what we know)

Are the chains attached to this spider somehow?

I'll give you another hint....

When something with two legs looses one leg....what happens?

Correct, you can't unlock the cages. There's not a keyhole that you are used to. Chains are not connect to the spider but ceiling but you can't see the ceiling. However the chains current grabbing Aeress and Olyx are much, much smaller than those.

And I couldn't find any rules in the book, if somebody is entangled, can somebody else help free them?

The entangled person can roll strength or agility, agility being an easier roll. Can the helper also roll agility to help?

The entangled person can roll Strength or Athletics.

Another person can either use a support action to aid that roll, or can attack the entangling material to try to free the person entangled.

This turns Jenkins is shooting, next turn she will free anyone that needs it (provided we're not all dead or incapacitated by then)

Anyone got Smite? :p

Do we know if the chains and cages are being manipulated by magic, or if said cages and chains are themselves magical/enchanted/etc?

How are the spider and rat-ogre joined?

Normally strength is roll to escape is at -2 and athletics is at par, which makes the later easier. You'll have to have more strength than athletics to have better chance.

Interesting, I had no idea one was at a penalty.  That's kind of weird, SW normally doesn't do that in the base rules.  I've done it as a house rule for donkey's years, but normally in the core rules if you're allowed to use 2 things they both work equally well.

Makes sense to me, one way you're trying to break your way out (ie break ropea etc), the other is just trying to slip the links...

Since 9 hits with a raise, you do an extra 1d6 damage to the thing.

I'm afraid this is inexact, as he forgot the modifier for distance...

Unless I miss something, the aiming negated either the called shoot or the distance DM 8as both were -4), but not both, so his rolled 9 means in fact 5: hit without a raise...

Did it yoyo back up? I thought it stayed down. Let me check...

Edit: it's on the ground, folk! So normal range, if not close range, and next turn we can gang up on it.

I suspect it may be better to target the spider part too, if I read Vaelan's hint correctly, and stop it yoyoing and getting to the cages.

Thanks for the reminder about raise damage Quenin, I'll edit my post.
This message was last edited by the player at 06:28, Thu 18 Apr.

Ok, with smite and 2d8+1 AP1 base damage might be able to do something with a bit of luck!

Waiting on a reply to the above before posting.

Hold your action after mine, I will attempt a Test to see if I can make it Vulnerable.

I disagree,  right now it's on the ground right in front of you. It's right after you in initiative order, meaning if you don't hit it it might run off.

Hunter and Quentin are there to take advantage of whatever Aeryss is planning, if it's still on the ground.

Quentin is effectively out of it until the spider thing decides to get him. That is, unless he can breathe fire over people's head and at the spider thingie. Quentin will do this only once, only into melee and only if spider thing is already shaken, so the question is whether he can safely breathe fire over peoples' heads (presumably with a shout of warning).

I mean the thing is supposed to be pretty big, it seems reasonable to me but GM call.

While that's a great plan, it plays right after me... and that's very risky, as it Olyx was nearly eviscerated.

Aaand I pay for my hubris. Typical. I deserve it XD

I guess you forgot some DMs...

As I understand it, your DMs were:

• two actions: -2
• Wild attack_ +2
• Size: +2
• Gang up bonus: +2 (Aeress and Quentin are adjacent and unstunned)

So, your final DM is +4, and your initial 1,4 is in fact 5,8, so a hit...

And if so, in the second attack, the roll of 3,7 would have been 7,11, so a hit with a raise...

Also see that, a you're already vulnerable (as entangled), the wild attack does not affect you (I guess you cannot be doubly vulnerable)...

As per this map: https://i.ibb.co/n6cTXTX/dungeon.jpg, only Olyx and Aeress are currently in melee. That is, unless Piper has summoned some fodder, which would have been very convenient. I believe Piper still has unresolved action as of right now, so I would ask the GM not to resolve the monster or the Olyx's attacks until after Piper. I believe it's the player delay to clarify, not the character holding her action.
This message was last edited by the player at 12:06, Fri 19 Apr.

Correct.  Waiting on GM input.

Did my best last round to participate but the RNG smacked me down, twice, so everyone this round is on their own (since I believe in last in the round order).

You're right, but even with this, final DM would be +3, and so Olix's first attack rolls of 1,4 would be 4,7, so a hit...

The only way to determine of the chains or cages are magical would be cast Detect/Conceal Arcana. You know for sure that when you touched them to analyze them nothing happen. There could be a key but right now nothing that you have one you will fit. Also no one has tried breaking or destroying one of the cages.

Botch doesn't cancel the attack but something bad does happen.

Since the GM does not clarify, I'll volunteer a guess. There difference in size shoud not be confused with the difference in scale. The later is described on page 106, where a horse (a size 2..3 creature), as well as a size 3 bull, are listed on the same scale as normal human folk, not on +2 scale like a hippo, which, I believe, would be size 4+.

A drake entry, for example, lists its size as "Size 6 (Large)", where "Large" is its scale of +2, as per page 106. A bull, as another example, has entry of "Size 3" and that's it.
This message was last edited by the player at 15:38, Fri 19 Apr.

Sure, but the GM said we have a +2 due to size. I guess with the aracnid addition it is larger than the former ogre rat...

OTOH, see that if this is the case, it should have a -2 when attacking us (and more if attacking Piper, I guess)

So, in the end, did Olyx wound the creature?
This message was last edited by the player at 15:45, Fri 19 Apr.

Normally I would take your point but I can't hurt this thing with my weapon and your damage is good but it's not good enough to overcome its regeneration.  It's just going to keep healing it away unless we hit it hard and to do that we have to soften it up with other mechanics.

Whatever, doesn't matter now.

Ok, I keep botching the math apparently. I thought Size was a bonus for Ranged attacks, and against melee I just had to hit a parry of 6.

Regardless, the first attack was pretty pointless anyway with such rolls so best case I don't botch and keep my Benny, but I accept the consequences of my actions (and lack of math).

But at least it's shaken so maybe RNGesus is kind this time and loses an action...? Like my 2d8 keep coming up 3 and 2 XD

Ok.  The mention of them being made of "special metal" had me thinking I'd missed something along the way.

I will be able to get a post up later today so the round can get concluded.

As soon as I see Olyx attack effect and the creature actions, I'll post, if still here (i'll ahve to leave until tomorrow afternoon in about 2 hours)...
This message was last edited by the player at 16:46, Fri 19 Apr.

Hunter has not yet achieved greatness:

 
This message was last edited by the player at 10:07, Sun 21 Apr.

Just for what's worth: with over 2550 messges, this game has surpased the lognest (in posts) i've ever played on rpol :)

That's a respectable number and in quite a short time. I'm in a GURPS-based one that's dying right now on GiTP for lack of players that is noticiably longer (anyone here does modern GURPS?), maybe three others DnD/PF that are about this size (two active and one defunct), and that's really it. All of the other ones were/are shorter. Not saying to jinx it, but we are doing great!

Another question:

SWADE Core Book, page 109:


Does this apply to such monsters?

After all, if they try to parry, they may well be hit, as they must parry with their body, so to say (the resoning of this rule, as expressed)...

It generally doesn't as most monsters have claws or something that makes them immune to that rule.  It's a little inconsistent, sure, but typically that's how it goes.

ANd yet, the rule doesn't exclude those with natural weapons, as other rules do...

I'm looking forward to the game update. Did the rust monsters succeed? What's the SpiderRatKing doing now? Did Olyx cause a grevious injury? Does Jenkins survive or is she the next target? What happens next?!

I'm also looking forward for it, but I need to know how rules apply, being the nest one to act (I guess my questions are pertinent, as they can affect the actions)...

And another question, BTW:

should the spider climb again, should the ones adjacent to it be able to have a free attack as per Withdrawing from Melee rule?

SWADE Core Book, page 109:

Not if the spider has Improved Extraction, but yes, we better have it confirmed by GM one way or another.

Yup 100%.

So, I undertand it has Improved Extraction, is this right?

Sorry I think either I misunderstood or possibly didn't understand your question.

While I am not in the habit of giving out information specific to monsters, I'd rather let you figure out the details. It does not have improved Extraction.

As a matter of fact everything this monster has makes perfect sense. I would only Edges that make sense to the biology of the creature itself. This should be a hint.

Thing with tons of legs is going to have tentacles.
Things that are rat in nature will likely have rat abilities.
Things that are spider in nature will likely have spider abilities.

So forth and forth. While somethings are probably easy to guess others will be a little trickier.

I think the confusion might have arisen from the fact that there was some melee resolved at the beginning of combat and the spider regained its distance without provoking AoOs. I attributed it to people making melee attacks without looking in the OOC thread for distance and the GM trying to accomodate that, but it did seem like the spider having Improved Extraction.

Also, to clarify. I am not sure you can roll to unshake while remaining on hold. That happens at the beginning of the turn, so can you go On Hold after that? If so, I might also use that in the future. If not, the spider can spend benny any time if it really wants to unshake and remain On Hold.

We can use Bennies to reroll damage?? DAMN I READ THE CHAPTER SPECIFICALLY FOR THAT AND DIDN'T SEE IT!

I feel stupid. I don't know why I'm failing so hard at this game mechanically right now, this is a shocker.

Height is a little confusing in this game and there are no rules.

That makes sense here are my thoughts:

Olyx (jump attack) and Aeress spear attacked. I wouldn't assume he was at the ceiling otherwise I would've just said it's impossible without climbing the chains. I assumed their actions was just this even though they didn't announce it.

Maybe I should've said something, lesson learned.

Unshaking: Nice catch. The shaken rules have always been a bit of a blurr but you are correct. I'll modify the post so he spends a benny.

Lirian > pg. 104: Natural Weapons. Creatures with Natural weapons are always considered armed. This means they aren't unarmed defenders and foe's fighting with two weapons gain no advantage. It does have claws so this makes sense otherwise I would throw it in and say you get the +2.

This is an interesting question, and should be addressed, but it won’t apply this round.

SWADE Core Book, page 96, under SOAK Rolls (bold is mine):



So, as it ahs soaked

As it rolled a 18, and so soaked 3 wounds (and I don’t believe Olyx has done so much damage), I’m afraid it’s already unshaken…


Lirian already did it last round…

No, I think Quentin is right.

Olyx hits the creature with Smite. I was going to just unshake as per a spirit free roll but you can't unshake and then hold. I read it on one of the forms. If you are shaken, you lose your turn. As such the only way for the creature to get a turn is to unshake with a benny.

OK. It seems I skipped this post of yours (I guess I was writing my own, posted just 4 minutes latter). Sorry for the latter reference to that.


They don’t seem so blurr to me… Core Book page 94:




So, you don’t lose your turn for being shaken. You must make the spirit roll, and even if you fail, you can make free actions.

Aside what I already said about soaking damage, why was it shaken in first instance? Since its last turn (where it get rid of shaken status), Aeress did not attack it, Jenkins hit it, but its damage roll (11) was not enough to shaken it. Olix also hit it, but damage roll (12) was also insufficient to damage it…

As I see it, it ws unshaken until Lirian's attack, thah shakened it...

Because you can't hold on a shaken status and if you are attacked and shaken during a hold, you lose your turn.

Sure, but, again, why was it shaken, in first stance?

I’m confused now…

I understand the spider rat intends to climb again. If so it can do before Lirian begins to act (and if so, Lirian turn is void, as she could not do what she intended, and  I guess it should be redone) or it can try to interrupt Lirian’s action (I guess after she dropped her bow and took her staff, but before she attacks, but if so, an opposed athletics roll would determine who acts first). Which is the case?

See that if it intends to contest Lirian in an athletics roll, should Lirian win, it would lose the Hold status as it is shaken (as you already said in your post). This would nullify its entire turn (and the free attacks due to its withdrawing)…
This message was last edited by the player at 11:58, Wed 24 Apr.

Does that mean the creature has to soak / unshake it all or it is NOT going anywhere (and thus in melee, and maybe not distracted(?) - not sure if the creature had to move to "pass Aeress" for the test to take effect)?
This message was last edited by the player at 12:19, Wed 24 Apr.

I’m afraid we need to take a breath (as much as I hate to bog the game) and rethink the situation…

As Olyx says its weapon has AP1, then I understand why the spider is shaken, and so I understand it using of a benny if it intends to hold (as it intends to act before Lirian, it would not be a wise move, as if it acts without setting on Hold it rolls to unshaken at the beginning of its turn, probably saving the benny, and being able to us it if it fails)

So, did it act before Lirian (probably not going on Hold, once it sees Piper action last turn) or attempt to interrupt her (if so, we must stop until this opposed roll is made, though this will be quick)?

If it acted before Lirian, without interrupting it, then I guess Lirian turn is void and should be rerolled, as it will be out of reach for her staff when she acts (and even if shaken, then ir may move, as it’s a free action), though any damage it may receive would be before Lirian acts (she would probably shot at it)

BTW, see that if it tries to withdraw before Lirian acts, Olix has a +2 to hit anyway due to size (and I have not so clear it cannot be a wild attack, as nothing in free attacks rules forbids them to be wild or called)

In resume, as I see it, we are facing one of this possibilities after Olyx attack shakes the Spider rat:

• (the most logical IMHO) Seeing Piper’s rust monsters acting, it takes its turn instead of going into Hold. It rolls for unshaken (a must, according the rules), spends a benny if fails (and if it wants to, as if it intends to move it’s not a must) and moves, receiving Olyx and Aeress free attacks
• It uses a benny to unshaken and goes into Hold, but then has second thoughts and decides to act, either before Lirian or trying to interrupt her.
  
  • If before, Lirian should be allowed to redo its turn, as it had no sense anymore to try to close if it has climbed, but receives the free attacks  before climbing.
  • If trying to interrupt, there should be an athletics opposed roll.
    
    • If it wins, it moves (and receives the free attacks) and Lirian is caught without her bow ready, and so unable to attack (I guess it went out of reach) she should do something else (e.g. trying to help another player out of the chains or use magic).
    • If it loses, Lirian attacks as already played and shakes it, so it loses its turn, but there are no free attacks.

If it acts before Lirian (be it because it so decides or because it loses the opposed roll) and her turn has to be redone, she recovers her spent benny, as her already written turn is void

Is my reasoning right? If so, which one is current situation (pendant Athletics opposed rolls if needed)?
This message was last edited by the player at 12:49, Wed 24 Apr.

Let me break it down and then we can go from there:

1. Olyx: 10D - Attacks with ap1 creature stuns, it has armor (free attack)
2. Rat-Spider: 8C -creature spends a benny and unhsakes -hold
-Creature decides to move seeing Piper's rust creatures (this technically doesn't happen at this point but since everything is so quick I am assume it's going to see this happen) Creature advances past attempting to get closer to the cages with the freed mouselings.
3. Lirian: 6C - attack with bow
4. Hunter: 5S - hold
5. Quentin: 4H - hold
6. Piper: 4C - Piper summons (freeing mouselings)
7. Aeress: 3H - Aeress fight test to distract, (free attack)

Lets start here. What is throwing everything off?
This message was last edited by the GM at 13:54, Wed 24 Apr.

OK, then Lirian will wait for the results of Olyx and Aeress freee attacks
, if possible

Sounds good. Anymore questions that need clarification?

I assumed that Aeress does the attack as soon as the creature passes so once again, it's happening all at the same time.

If the creature had taken damage before it went it turns, yes, it could not move or do anything at that point. Same goes with heroes. If you are on hold and something shakes you, you lose your turn.


But the current combat was hit > unshake > hold > move/attack > then everyone else's turn

I guess Olyx actions (and rolls) are kept, as they fit in the course of events. Nonehteless, as the spider rat has begun his turn, and it's no longer in hold, I guess it also keeps its turn (once Aeress has used her free attack option)

Yes, because it's before you unless you decide you want to attack after?

Lirian will atack after Aeres (or before I have to leave the computer ;)), asswhe has her free attack.

Also, teh spider rat may try to soack Olix hit, if it wants and has bennies remaining)

I don't think it can because of distracted and the potential stunned. It's out of bennies to soak and it's already unshaken this round so it can't unshake again. Once per turn I believe.

I don't think so, the rules don't limit to one benny per turn to unshaken:

Core Book, page 95 (bold is mine):


Being out of bennies is entirelly another matter...
This message was last edited by the player at 18:04, Wed 24 Apr.

By the way, as the spider rat moves before Lirian may shoot, which distance is it when Lirian acts?

It would be considered short range.

Just waiting for Aeress and then I can resolve this round and move to the next. Her attack or action is important.

For those keeping score Olyx, scored a shaken.
Hunter will score a shaken/wound (depending)
and then we have Aeress and Quentin's actions.

Isn't it 13(2), so 16 dmg with AP1 means 4 more, so a Wound?

No. Here is why:

pg. 65 - Core Book:
Armor Piercing (AP) The weapon or round ignores this many points of armor. A weapon with an AP value of 4 ignores 4 points of armor. Excess AP is simply lost.

The creature has natural toughness of 11 +2 Armor that's what the 13(2) means. So your ap of 1 is negated by the armor so your roll is truly on 15. (+2 armor - -1 AP = +1 armor) roll 16 -1 for armor = 15 still a shaken.

Hunters 18 would be at 16 for the armor.

Are you sure?

I was quite sure that 13 (2) means that it's 13, 2 of which are armor, so anything above AP2 is useless.

From Armor, p. 69 of v5.4:

"Armor is written in parentheses next to a character’s Toughness, like this: 11 (2). This means
2 points of the character’s 11 Toughness comes from Armor. An Armor Piercing attack can
bypass those 2 points but not the other 9."

So I would have 7(2) for example.

If the rat thing is 13(2) then a 16 ap1 attack treats the rat thing as having a total toughness of 12 for the purposes of damage.

Total toughness of 13, but 1 is bypassed by the AP of the attack.


Unless they totally changed how things work and I'm utterly missing things.

Sorry I got confused, I thought I was taking another action before it went again, but then I read and realized it was just a free attack for it leaving combat.  That seems to have worked out okay though.

It makes the post look like trash though since it broke all the formatting to edit it.



Correct



Let me put it this way, 16 damage with AP 1 vs 13(2) is the same thing as 16 damage with no AP vs 12(1), i.e. a raise, just barely, but a Wound all the same.

AP matters, Parry matters, Toughness matters lol

That hits with a raise against pary of 6 if +2 for its size applies.

Quentin will want to see if that has any effect on the thing's actual health.
This message was last edited by the player at 03:36, Thu 25 Apr.

Yeah I'm not clear if any effects for its Size are already included in its Parry being 6, since it seems to have a pretty high Fighting die.  It's not hard to add d6 damage if need be at least.

That's totally different than I remember or I am fudging my games up. You are correct. So that's a shaken + wound.

There's a chance it was different in an older version (like Deluxe), but I'm not 100% sure. I mean there's a lot of subtle but existing changes between editions...

Don't worry, glad we got it cleared up!

Come one guys, it plays last! We can do this!

As things are now, can the spider rat be attacked by close combat, or only with ranged weapons?
This message was last edited by the player at 16:18, Sat 27 Apr.

It's on the ground, we are all attacking it in melee, and it hasn't run away.

What Hunter said. It's not up on the ceiling it's on the ground.

THen I guess Aeress had at least a +1 for gang up bonus (Olix). If so, I guess she hit (as her DMs would be +2 for vulnerable, +2 for size, +1 for gang up bonus), so her roll (after the bennie) would be 6,5: just enough to hit.

If so, she should roll for damage...

It's not vulnerable. Aeress made an attack not another skill roll. It's distracted.

Nevermind, saw Aeress roll. Keep in mind the order of turns.
This message was last edited by the GM at 13:50, Sun 28 Apr.

Waiting for Quentin and then I'll post.

Yes, but I've already spent two bennies, and it seems I'm not lucky on damage today (unlike on hitting)

Fighting Tests are a whole different mechanic.  On the one hand, you don't get to use Wild Attack or Gang Up or any of that stuff.

On the other hand I can roll under its Parry and potentially still win the Test.

I spent a benny to reroll a raise I might not have got. Please let me know if I didn't get the raise, in which case I wouldn't have spent the benny.

Luckly Lirian turn was before Olyx, as I would have hated to have spent those two bennies should he have had his turn before...

Unless I'm wrong Olyx has produced 2 wounds on his first attack and 4 more on his second. With the spider rat out of bennies (and IIRC already wounded) I have serious doubts it has survived this...

I mistakenly added an extra +2 from the Vulnerable which I understood it's not, but my first roll is a 7 which is still a success, and the second one is a whopping 15 just on the dice so nothing changes fortunately!

Well, I understand it is vulnerable, and the fact the GM striked the sentence when he denied it seemed to confirm it, unless I understood it wrong...

How did Jenkins get on releasing mountings? Did she have to roll anything?

Since Aeress did the test this round before it can act. It is vulnerable and it goes last.

Sorry about the lack of posting. Going to grab the updates today and push them out.

Did I just do 6 wounds on top of whatever was already done, and it's still up and about?

(　ﾟ Дﾟ)

Assuming your math is correct, it may technically still be "up and about" for dramatic purposes.

In reply to Olyx Mintarios (msg # 241):

Now you know how I feel rolling 27 damage and having absolutely nothing happen lol

Is it panic? Because, Anakin, I'm pAnakin!

I mean, it can happen.  I've done it to players before with truly monstrous bosses.

it did not. It has 3. Still up.

Every shake pretty much gets ignored due to Hardy. Shaken's don't give it wounds because of that. :)

But it's taken like five "shaken" in a row!

So what, we have to do 8 damage AFTER getting past its parry and defence?

Hardy
Very tough or determined creatures do not
fall from lesser injuries, no matter how many
they suffer. A decisive blow is needed to put
one of these tenacious creatures down.
If the beast is Shaken, another Shaken result
doesn’t cause a Wound.

Could be wrong but the way that "reads" or how I am inputting it.

Because this creature is extra tough no matter how many extra shaken's it takes past the first....it doesn't get additional wounds. It simply just shakes them off without a raise. Essentially if you don't roll a raise you aren't wounding it. It's a pretty nasty trait.

the clarification from reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/savag...uestion_about_hardy/

Normally, if you deal damage to a shaken foe and don't roll a raise on damage, the foe is wounded from the second shaken status. Hardy negates this.

In order to wound a Hardy foe, at least one raise must be rolled on damage.

But we have been damaging with a raise, again and again, and you call that shaken and immediately dismiss it. It seems we need to make two raises on a damage roll to cause one wound.

Maybe there seems to be a misunderstanding somewhere?

I can see the following attacks on it:
msg #285, I hit once for 18 AP1 damage, and 13 AP1 damage. That's only one Wound.
msg #287, Aeress hits it for 27 damage, which is 3 Wounds, and then 10 or 19 (depending on the raise), so maybe one Wound extra?
(msg #288, SpiderRat soaks 2 wounds AND HEALS ONE. Damn I just noticed that...)
msg #297, Lirian hits it twice but only Shaken
msg #300, Jenkins shot it but not enough damage
msg #304, I botch spectacularly
msg #307, Lirian attacks again, almost gets a raise, but nothing
msg #309, Hunter stabs it but no Wound, but shoots it for 21 damage, which is 2 Wounds
msg #313, I barely manage to do 16 AP1 damage, which is enough for one Wound
msg #316, Aeress does 16 damage, almost getting it...
msg #321, Lirian peppers it with arrows but just gets shaken results
msg #324, the dice were kind, I did 21 AP 1 damage for 2 Wounds, and 28 AP1 damage for 4 Wounds
msg #325, Hunter smacks it good, hitting it with 17 or 21 depending on the raise, so that's 1 or 2 Wounds
msg #328, Quenting makes it a BBQ by doing 19 AP2 damage, which is 2 Wounds.

So, we've caused it a total of 16-18 Wounds or so, out of which it has soaked 2 and healed one... that we know of. Maybe it's like that One Piece strawman guy and we are killing the mouselings...

Let’s see:

Not counting the shaken results, it had one wound at the beginning of the turn.

• Lirian attacks were both ineffective, as only shaken results were achieved (despite he best efforts)
• Olyx first attack rolled a 21 on damage (AP1). 21-12=9, so two raises, two more wounds (total 3)
• Olyx second attack rolled 17, so another raise, and so andother wound (total 4)
• Hunter first attack didn’t damage it, but his second rolled a 17 on damage, so another wound (total 5). If his roll of 11 on attack was a raise (I guess so), his raise roll was a 4, so it would mean another wound (total 6)
• Quentin bolt rolled a 19 (AP2) on damage, so it was 8 over the 11 needed, so two more wounds (total 7, 8 if Hunter’s hit was with a raise)

Did I miss something, or read something wrong?

It's healed twice in this fight. Every time it sucked the life from one of the mouselings it heals automatically as a free action.

But let me rework the math and see if I messed up.

That part was skipped Quentin did go yet when I did my calculations but yes in fact Olyx with Quentin's damage defeats the creature.

Sorry Olyx...I thought you only scored a roll of 17. I missed the first attack of 21.

No worries! I was panakin mostly because I felt we were doing something horribly wrong, as per the One Piece thingie above.

Hardy, High Toughness (12+, or 10+ at Novice Rank) = very, very hard to hurt

Throw in regeneration and it's even worse

And it had resilience and wall climbing. It was part spider.

With that said, I tried giving hints without ruining the combat but for future reference.

Stunning the creature on the chains would've resulted in falling (ever read falling damage in Savage Worlds? It's not nice).

Taking out the legs would've immobilized it after a round or two since it wouldn't be able to climb. It would've had to resort to magic only.

Finally freeing the mouselings reduces it chance of healing because each mouseling could be absorbed once per round, essentially always healing one wound per round as a long as food was available.

I knew it! Poor mouselings...

Well, I knew it. Olyx is too thick-skinned and was too scared to do anything but go SMASH.

From a game mechanics standpoint though I'm curious, how could we take out the legs? Called Shot? How much damage would be needed? Or is it a Test?

As I said before the whole "how much damage can it take", it was less a "is there a mistake in the math" and more a "OMG THIS THING WON'T GO DOWN, HALP!"

The legs would've followed the rules of tentacles. So I believe they have the parry and toughness of the host but it wouldn't have the hardy trait. At least that would be my thinking. And I believe each leg is essentially like regular mob.

That's interesting. I understood the legs could be damaged separately, but at 8 wounds total decided it would be roughly on par with attacking the body and the body will then have to be killed anyway and one probaly cannot target the limbs with AoE, so any progress would not have been cumulative with Quentin. Called Shots rule says "hitting a limb has no additional special effect" and it not occured to me that these might pass for tentacles.

I thought about using Shocking Song (Stun spell), but it gives a Vigor Saving Throw, and it seemed to be quite strong on Vigor, and Lirian is short in PPs, so I decided against it...

About the legs, should I have thought about it, Lirian would have tried it as a grapple...
This message was last edited by the player at 14:23, Thu 02 May.

Yup. At any point a monster that has multi attacks with different appendages is normal going to use the tentacle rule. Never every time because things like tails, extra arms or what not might not use that but for the most part that would likely be in use.

It did...but it could've failed. Had it failed, it would be subjected to taking a decent amount of damage for the fall. If nothing else it probably would've taken a wound.

Overall, it was a pain in the ass fight. Way too long but ya'll did a great job tackling the creature.

Honestly, I didn't think about it falling, but stunned characters attacked in close combat are subject to The Drop (page 100 of the Core Book). Nonehtekless, I considered the possibilities to work too low...

Sorry Ive been slack, I'll catch up tomorrow.

Quentin's rations are all on the horse, so he'll probably test (and maybe eat) whatever Jenkins is cooking. He can benefit from up to four hours of rest, but won't insist on full amount.

Yep, the same +1 in Fantasy Companion, and with the same wording.

Still here, very busy last few days.

Another question, related to this, to anyone who owns SWADE Fantasy Companion:

As I said several times, the Fantasy Companion I have is for SW Explorer Edition, not Adventure Edition. On it, Healing spell only allows to heal recent wounds, diseases and poison (and with ho added PPs for the latter), while Greater Healing allows for older/crippling wounds. In SWADE core book they are a single spell, the effects of Greater Healing being modifiers of the Healing spell (albeit at greater costs, as what was the cost of Greater Healing is now added to the cost of Healing), and treating diseases/poison need 1 more PP.

Which version uses SWADE Fantasy Companion?

For you answer to poison treating I guess the SADE CB, but I cannot be sure if the changes were due to Edition (explorer's to Adventurer's) or to Fantasy Companion itself…

Not wanting to give the GM evil ideas not to be pessimistic, but I’d wait for his confirmation (if confirmed) about the effect of Lirian’s magic before giving Jenkis for recovered…

We don’t know if this poison is magic and resistant to magic, or had a difficulty DM… Lirian had to try (it's on her nature and behavior to do so), but cannot be sure if its effectiveness until results are seen.

SWADE FC uses its own version of Healing, which consists, basically, of:
1. An exact full copy of SWADE Core Healing.
2. An epic use which experienced characters can unlock (across the board, not per each individual spell). The epic use is named "Mass Healing" and targets Small Blast Template for +2 or Large Blast Template for +3, healing all allies covered.

Ok, so how long are we staying holed up?

1 hour?

2?

I don't have PPs, so will refrain from commenting.

I'm fine with as long as you guys decide.

If you go 4, you recover half the PP of a full rest which is normally to full.

Is not it plain 5 per hour?

Yes, and that means 20 PPs, but I have serious doubts anyone has more than this, as at much you can be3gin with 15 and gain 5 per rank (and we're not yet seasoned)...
This message was last edited by the player at 15:54, Fri 10 May.

Appears so.



This is also the text used in the fantasy companion.

So 2 hours would have likely been enough, but as long as there's no harm no foul taking more, bit of a moot point.
This message was last edited by the player at 16:02, Fri 10 May.

Well, two hours is what Lirian suggested as maximum, but others told about four, and as the Referee said four, I assumed Lirian fell slept (as otherwise she would have insisted in not to wait as much, out of fear for anyone to appear, as she told before).

Doh! Yeah I always thought it was much lower for some reason. Oh well, more realistic. Most people aren't going to get a real good rest without a few hours. Even an hour really isn't enough and especially for your conditions...no bed...in a dungeon etc.

I'll update the map and move the story forward in the AM. I am away from my work computer which has the map on it.

Hello, I will be on vacation from tomorrow until Sunday, so I can post on Monday!

No problem! Thanks for the heads up. Have fun!

The only objection aired was Liriam's. Hunter is 80% sure that the liquid is a life force battery for who knows what horrific purpose, and he wants it destroyed.

If people want to act on Liriams objection, we could move the bodies first?

How likely do people think that she's right?

I'm quite happy to hold Hunters action and do something else first (but I don't want to waste a roll like that).

Quentin is not sure that blowing up the tank is a bad idea. Currently, Quentin is more of "you have been warned" disposition (he does think Lirian's warning has merit). He is equally well disposed to any of the following possibilities:
1. Hunter blows the thing up, all goes well, everyone is happy.
2. Hunter blows the thing up, zombies rise, we fight them and blame that on Hunter (not on Quentin).
3. We don't blow the thing up, that turns out to be a mistake, we blame that on Lirian (not Quentin).
4. We spend the time to move the bodies, that also might be good or bad decision (not sure how long that will take and how much time we have) and we praise or blame... well, someone (not Quentin).

Quentin is certainly not in the mood to tell people what they should do when he hasn't the foggiest...

I go away for a day... I kid.  IC Aeress can't endorse this, but OOC hell yeah

Why do j need to throw it? Why can't I place it and light a fuse?

A good question, and does anyone have an Athletics better than whatever yours is if we must throw it?  Not to mention all the support rolls we could make.

I mean you can. Sure. Typically throwing is the best bet for when you have explosives considering that it would explode and you don't want to be next to it.

So if you don't throw...then your making an athletics check to run out of the blast radius. Pick your poison. Either way an athletics check.

I'm having difficulty picturing those map directions.

Are the noises by the door or halfway down the hallway?

Could you update the map please?

Yup doing that this morning.

This weekend is got going as planned. My wife got some bad news and we are waiting for the results so I'll try to update but it might be when I have time.

I'm sorry to hear that, I hope everything goes as well as it can.

No worries on the posting, real people should always take precedence over fictional ones.

That sounds ominous. I hope it's not as serious as it sounds. Take all the time you need, family comes first.

Take care of important things first, we will be here.

Real life always have priority. We can wait.

Good news, it turned out to be nothing serious. Thanks for the understanding.

glad to know