I’ve been away from RPOL and GMing in general for a few years (real life issues that don’t apply any more).  The last Shadowrun I played/GM’d was SR3, but I got a stack of SR5 books from humble.com that I’m working my way through.  I’m okay with any sourcebook I have… I do have Run Faster, but I’ve not read it yet.  If I don’t have a sourcebook that you want to use, make your case and if it sounds interesting, I may go buy it.

I’m not comfortable enough with the system yet to go the Prime Runner route, but I do really like the cohesive team idea, even if it’s a dysfunctional family sort of team.  No real lone wolves, but a family/team of the sort where ‘nobody kicks my brother but me’ variety is fine.

I’m not interested in running military/merc, but the other options are possible.  Here are some options/variations.
===================
Magical Collection Team (freelance, DIMR, Atlantean, Black Lodge)

Bug hunters / Shedim hunters / Infected hunters / Toxic hunters

History rollback to the dragon civil war using SR5 rules, working for a dragon or dragons, though they may not know it to start out, and may not really know which one(s) for a while (yes, this calls for some tweaks to the canon history lines, but I’m good with that if people are interested.

Corp Troubleshooters / HTR, defense against shadowrunners

Ex-corp team with a grudge against their former employer… not all runs will go that way, but there’s a definite slant

Blackmailed and forced to work together… if they can make it as a team, may be able to clear the blackmail threat… then what?

Misfits that just clicked together… what keeps them together?  Us against the world?  Shared history?

Let's talk it over and find something everyone will enjoy.
This message was last edited by the GM at 14:38, Wed 28 Feb.

Until we settle on what direction we want to go, I'll just add people with the user name the RTJ comes from.  If you have another name you would rather be added with, just let me know.

I'm onboard with most of these ideas, personally.

Roughly in order of how they appeal:

1. Corp Troubleshooters / HTR, defense against shadowrunners.
   Being legit and having more of the toy chest to work with appeals greatly.
   
2. Misfits that just clicked together… what keeps them together?  Us against the world?  Shared history?
   Might be a good opportunity for everyone (not just me) to brush off some more esoteric concepts.
   
3. Magical Collection Team (freelance)
   Pixie Mage!

Thanks.  I've added a few more people.  Let's see what the others want too.  There's also no reason we can't combine or mix a couple of different ideas, if that appeals to anyone.  The misfits one, the ex-corp one, and the blackmailed ones would all be easy to mix with something else.

thanks for the add, of those 3 i would go with these 2

1) Misfits that just clicked together… what keeps them together?  Us against the world?  Shared history?
Might be a good opportunity for everyone (not just me) to brush off some more esoteric concepts.
2)Magical Collection Team (freelance)
Pixie Mage! (well not pixie for me as someone would claim that but i have other ideas)
This message was last edited by the player at 19:56, Sat 02 Mar.

Hello everyone! I have similar thoughts on game concept.

Corp Troubleshooters / HTR: possibly DocWagon or KE?

Magical Collection team: never played a magical creature before, so that would be cool!

Blackmailed and forced to work together… if they can make it as a team, may be able to clear the blackmail threat… then what: DC’s Suicide Squad-esque?

Misfits that just clicked together: common childhood background at an orphanage or city block where a mentor/parental figure died which brought them together aka Umbrella Academy on Netflix

  I also like the idea of troubleshooters. I once tried to run a game where the players were a strike team for Grid Oversight Division, but it fell through; mostly my fault. Still, I like the idea of a branch or team that handles messy situations for a more specialist group.


Maybe a Thunderbolts type thing of deathrow inmates given kink bombs and allowed to work towards freedom or at least some privilege/comfort.

I've seen a mystical lodge concept kicked around before, but it would need to be a lodge concept that finds that right balance of limitation and freedom to get a nice 'coherent diversity'. might be fun to be forced out of conventional concepts and try something like an adept hacker or something like that.

In reply to serrasin (msg # 7):

Honestly, the magical lodge would probably work better if it's the case that the team has something else in common.   Which might fit some of the other campaign ideas as outlined by TheGM.   That campaign idea would work best with Magical Collection Team or any that really has a full (or nearly full) magic using group.

It strikes me that the Corp Troubleshooters would benefit mundane characters greatly; especially riggers who'd have to worry much less about replacing destroyed assets.

Misfits could also work in tandem with the other ideas.    You could have a group that's basically a group of odd-balls who've been thrown together because they really don't fit anywhere else.   Like the magical lodge idea, this could work in tandem with another.

As far as the Blackmailed group goes, starting with a shared friend/associate strikes me as the simplest solution; coming up with a why to stay together would be easier to work out through the first run rather than right up front.  It's not necessary that the PCs be the ones being blackmailed, after all.

Aside: In my experience, the Prime Runner route plays out about the same as the regular one; but gives a bit more freedom in character building.    Both for mundanes (who gain access to better gear via the increase in availability rating) and mages (who benefit from the increase in quality points).
This message was last edited by the player at 17:18, Sun 03 Mar.

I agree about Prime Runner allowing for more potential for characters. It also allows for non-traditional archetypes and roles to be more viable.

From what people have said:
Giving 3 points for first pick,

Magic has 9
corp 8
misfits 5

so unless someone really throws things out the window, it looks like Magical Collection team is probably it

the ideas arent mutually exclusive. for example an ARES magic material recovery squad or something like that.

In reply to Xeriph (msg # 10):

I think the general consensus is basically "not the usual shadowrun game", which I think is great.   As serrasin pointed out, these ideas are not mutually exclusive.    In fact, it can be all three at once; depending on what the GM has in mind.

Sorry, been a busy couple days. I do like the direction things seem to be going though. Magic team sounds fun.

So it sounds like a magical collection team is leading the pack.  Just to be sure we're talking about the same thing, I'd understand that to mean a team collecting magical artifacts, creatures, telesma, things of that sort.  Characters don't have to be magical, but should at least have knowledge skills pointing that way.  If someone else understands it differently, let me know what you're thinking.

To fit in the corp angle, we can give them a sponsor.  DIMR would be my default choice, but I'm open to other suggestions.

Anybody who wants to go for the misfit angle is welcome to build that way, but I don't think I'll require it.  It would be an easy in to tighten up the team, sort of "us against the world."

So before i come up with something... well.. crazy...

just any legal character with the normal build system???

In reply to TheGM (msg # 14):

I'd prefer not to do the Shadowrun version of "Bring 'em Back Alive", if that's okay with everyone else.   I guess my thought with that idea was more on a troubleshooter angle and/or S&R than Go Fetch.    Granted, there's a lot of places that require heavy armed delivery boys....

Several options (including something crazy), but that'll depend on what we end up doing.   Some stuff is easier when using a prime runner build (like a Naga heavy weapon specialist, for example) and some stuff it doesn't.
This message was last edited by the player at 02:04, Mon 04 Mar.

So Japanese latex wearing nymphomaniac vampire? sounds silly enough.


This message was last edited by the player at 03:50, Mon 04 Mar.

Lets please try to not make this Barnum's Freak Show?

Spoilsport.   :D
This message was last edited by the player at 11:51, Mon 04 Mar.

After having pulled out my copy of Chrome and Flesh,  Naga Tank (with Shiva Arms) sounds really appealing right now.   Second choice would probably be a pixie mystic adept.

As far as crazy goes....I did admittedly make (and delete) an ork who biosculpted himself into an anthromorph as a way of disguising himself from his former employers.

In reply to serrasin (msg # 18):

she seems quite attractive to me :-)

I have other ideas, which are just as much fun.

lol. I dont mean to be the party pooper, but there is a line where once it's crossed then the game's veracity drops off.

everyone enjoys different things, i try and make interesting things, well interesting to me.

GM can always say, nope to far.

Never saw Bring 'em Back Alive, though it looks like it's old enough that it was on before I mostly stopped watching TV. :)

Hunter, can you tell me a little more about what you were thinking when you say magical troubleshooters?  Metaplane explorers, or even just magical 'real' world explorers?  A team that specializes in taking magical items or people from other corps?  Or am I still off the mark and not understanding?

Same for anyone else.  If you understood magical collection team differently than I did, what were you picturing?

Misfits, yes, if that's what interests people, but not required.  Silly for silly's sake or Freak Show, preferably not.  To keep the game going, I think it's better to have characters with a little more depth.  Freak shows tend to end up as very one note characters.  And yes, serrasin, they tend to break the 'suspension of disbelief' barrier.

For character generation, I was thinking normal priority build, but I'd go for the Sum to 10 system from Run Faster, or maybe the point build system there, but it looks like that might be prone to abuse, so I'd be a little pickier there.  If anyone has their heart set on something different, pitch it out and we'll talk it over.

Mainly I'm looking for a team, where there's not one character that overshadows everyone else, and where there are in character reasons for them to work together.

In reply to TheGM (msg # 24):

As far as the Magical Angle:
I'd have to say I was thinking more along the lines of a team that dealt specifically with magical and/or magically oriented threats.   An example might be a pack of Barghest that have taken to eating people and destroying assets.  For this particular game, I'm guessing that I'd like to move away from the "we take stuff from other people approach"; and focus more on being the good guys, even if the people we're working for really aren't.


As far as character concepts go:
The two ideas that I have in mind (atm) are a Naga Tank and a Pixie Mystic Adept.    The Naga Tank would basically be just that...a tank; not really excelling at much past fighting but very good at that.     The Pixie would be a corporately trained (college educated or equivalent) that went to medical school.

And while they're both certainly Misfit type characters, that's about all the farther into the silliness that I'm willing to delve for this campaign.

Would we start out at street, normal, or prime runner level for chargen?

For Magical Collections Team: I thought it was less take stuff from other people and more go get this rare magical item rumored to be in X place. All the while another team is trying to beat us to the punch. Or more Warehouse 13 style where we are guarding magical items in a secret warehouse. I’m fine with any of the three. Depending on the flavor will determine what type of character I envision.

If we're still talking about a team under DIMR then I'm thinking about a social/legal adept on loan from Zurich-Orbital Gemeinschaft Bank to help negotiate extra-territorial conflicts and access for the group. Been wanting to tinker with a 'legal adept' so this might be as good a chance as any.

Other than that then perhaps:
a psionic mystic adept who focuses on force spells and object manipulation (telekinesis).
an aethernaut mage focused on delving into the astral plane and dealing with spirits.

Normal runner rules for chargen.

Putting together what I'm hearing, here's where I am so far.  Misfits are welcome, but not required.

Sponsored by the DIMR or the Atlantean foundation or some offbeat private individual with very deep pockets, your team works to minimize the threats that the magical world poses to the rest of the world.  You may be protecting against paranimals, hostile spellcasters or spirits of various sorts.  You may be working to isolate or defend magical sites or to collect magical artifacts.  You may be sent to penetrate corp sites, or sent into the wilder parts of the world.  Since the objectives you'll be given may be odd in a lot of different ways, your team was put together with an eye to a wider range of abilities and options.

You've been working together for a month or two... enough to get some idea of what the others are like, and to build some internal trust, but not enough to eliminate all of the friction or all of the surprises.  In a big step away from the 'normal' Shadowrun game, you also actually have some reasons to trust that your sponsor / contact person won't just be out to screw you over, but it's more like a job, so it's not just carte blanche to do whatever you want.

That's an overview, and it's still open to revision.  Feel free to poke holes in it, make suggestions, and we'll see where we end up.

As far as the actual missions / objectives, I'll wait until we get at least character concepts.  In building your characters and backstories, keep in mind that I'll be going through them looking for hooks and plot points.  I can't guarantee that I'll grab every string that you leave hanging, but I'll be using those for inspiration, along with my own evil imagination.

If you want to unlock my character sheet i'll post my character, or do you want them posted here?

No dragons, please.

I liked SR5, but haven't played it in a while. I did try several games here on RPoL, but none of those survived past the first scene.

I have all of the sourcebooks.

Drakes are silly expensive, even if you dump all of your karma to start

 Keep in mind that shadowrun assumes that the characters are outsiders, but this type of game can flip that a lot. For example SINNER isnt really a disadvantage.

What is everyone else planning on playing?   I"m leaning toward the Pixie Medic atm.
This message was last edited by the player at 03:35, Tue 05 Mar.

as the GM didnt say no...

Japanese latex wearing nymphomaniac vampire mage

In reply to Xeriph (msg # 34):

I see that picture and my brain goes to A Nymphoid Barbarian in Dinosaur Hell....

Didn't say no, and won't say no to the concept, Xeriph, but I will point out up front that this game is marked Mature, not Adult.  They nymphomaniac part will need to be downplayed.

Also, I'll be going through the vampire info for Shadowrun, as the little bit I've ever used them was a lot of years ago.  I'm sure there are problems and disadvantages to that condition, along with the advantages and powers.  You don't get one without the other.

To also emphasize what serrasin said, this game may tweak some of the SR build assumptions.  As a former Hero games GM, I've lived a long time with the quote, "A disadvantage that isn't a disadvantage isn't worth any points."

I think all of the character sheets are unlocked now.  Anyone who needs a name change, just let me know.

Also, I think we'll go with the DIMR as the sponsor, unless somebody has a strong objection.  While they're not angels, they do tend to put you on the 'good guys' side of the line, at least most of the time.

Question is how much hacking will be needed.

That largely depends on what characters come through.  In the earlier SR editions I ran, decking pretty much dead ended everybody else while the decker did their thing, so I got used to just handwaving it away, or using NPC backup deckers.  I haven't done more than skim the SR5 Matrix rules, but the little bit I have looked at looks like it's integrated better.

If someone wants to play a decker / technomancer / whatever, I'll build adventures with that in mind.  If we don't have one, I'll work around it.

Yes on all accounts,

Yes black curtain,
i down graded the 'addiction' to moderate

yes down sides
allergy sunlight extreme, so yea, even with a full body suit, if i take physical damage it means i'm taking more physical damage until i repair my clothes as it means the round penetrated
UV lights can do the same thing
targeting spells during the daytime...

drinking blood nutrition... gotta source that
essence loss/essence drain  gotta source that also

The more I look at it, the less I like the idea, but if you're good with the bad along with the good, I'm still not saying no.  They look more than a little overpowered, plus the in world problems with how they're viewed, and... ouch.

I'll have to see the sheet to be sure, and we may have to have some private conversations about how you're seeing some parts of being a vampire to make sure we're on the same page so I don't toss you any nasty surprises.

I've never GM'd VtM, but I did play briefly, so I can see a lot of reasons that playing a vampire might appeal.

Which build rules did you use, so I can take a look?  There are still parts of 5e that I'm learning on the fly. :)

It is just my first pick, I'm not going to have a hissy fit if you say no it doesn't fit, i'll just pick another option.

The creation rules are in run faster p133

And sheet in in my character now  You dont get most of the powers, only one off a limited list to start, you have to buy the rest in game, and can only buy one power every 60 or 90 days in game
This message was last edited by the player at 18:15, Tue 05 Mar.

I think I’m going to go Orc Street Samurai Archer with a tracking/hunting emphasis.
This message was last edited by the player at 18:41, Tue 05 Mar.

 Im currently playing with the idea of a social adept lawyer, but trying to figure out just how much combat to put into the character compared to contributing team boost through Leadership and disrupting with Commanding Voice. Maybe too tactically narrow for field work. Perhaps may mash the concept with the combat specialized psionic to mind punch people?

Hunter, pixie medic...  I can see lots of size-based issues, but like with Xeriph, if you're good with the bad coming with the good, it sounds like an interesting concept.

Mustang, that sounds good.

serrasin, face / social / legal adept is okay, but flexibility always helps.

For everyone, once you get a sheet up, let me know.  I'll probably have questions, but we'll take them back to the private message threads.  I'm working on the bones of the first adventure, but I'll have to see what characters we're looking at before I'll be able to flesh it out.

I know I've been bouncing in and out a lot for the past couple of days, but what are the typical posting rate requirements for rpol games now?  I used to use once or twice a day, at least 4 days a week as a general rule, but I'm fairly flexible.

That is fine rate with me, i can usually post more than once per day if i need to.

In reply to Miyako Muto (msg # 45):

Looks like the name change took.  Wasn't sure I had remembered that right.

Posting rate of 4x a week is good for me.

 so are the characters going to be following the same tradition or sharing membership in the same lodge?

Shinto tradition

In reply to serrasin (msg # 48):

Path of the Wheel.   I'm envisioning a character from Tír na nÓg (which gives SINs) and having gone to someplace like Dublin University.
I'm currently thinking someone with knowledge of various paranormals and other magical threats, with the skill set to keep alive and relatively calm anything we don't want dead.  Definitely going the college educated route and medicine aptitude.




I'm okay with the size difference, it's not my first fairy type character (in any system).   I'm expecting to have to bottom out resources (to even get close to everything else) which will likely end up with the Bug-Out Bag from Run Faster...and crashing on someone's couch or at the office.

 In reply to Hunter (msg # 50):

Im also looking at Path of the Wheel; A mystic adept combat mage on the first path. Probably not planning to buy astral perception, so more focused on negotiations with extreme prejudice.

Definitely not going to have enough karma to go with Mystic Adept, have to go full mage.

On the flip side....Code of Honor (The Hippocratic Oath).

It's not necessary to share a tradition or a lodge.  Although, with DIMR sponsorship, they probably sponsor several lodges, so finding one to fit any of the characters is not likely to be a big problem.

@TheGM

I tried to find a clear answer about this online and only managed to rummage up a bunch of internet squabbling, so figured that I would just ask you.



Bolded for emphasis. So I'm looking to make a lightening focused blaster caster. So would this mean that the character soaks drain from lightening spells as lightening damage, thus benefiting from elemental resistance armor mods? It seems to be the intent of quality given the inherent risk and cost; giving an opportunity for the mage to benefit from specialized casting through gearing. On the other hand there seems to be some general mewling about how unbalanced it is, even when they say that combat blasting magery is sub-obtimal in the next breath. /sigh

Sometimes i wonder what people think...

short answer is NO. Drain never interacts with your equipment only stats (ok yes technically cyberware that increases stats that affect your drain COULD be affected, but then again it is your stat not the equiment).  so your armor can have 100 resist electricity, inside a rubber ball insulated from the ground and you are still going to take drain code damage/resist. on your drain code to resist based on stats.  will+???

What this means is you get +2 dice to cast with all "element" spells regardless of type (combat, illusion, health etc), if you take drain you also take the secondary effect of that damage type for electricity is -init i think.

i would just take specialty combat spells for 7 karma gets you +2 to cast with no negatives instead of 10
This message was last edited by the player at 21:50, Wed 06 Mar.

UPDATE:

OK... i see what people are saying but they are still reading it wrong...

IF you go with that idea, then instead of drain code (will+logic) you get (armor+elemental resist)

this still summarizes it better imho...

Would you really? I mean, here's what else 10 karma can buy you that do similar things:

* A mentor spirit that does the same thing, with an additional bonus depending on your type (countered by a negative effect), for 5 karma
* A spellcasting focus that adds +2 to all your combat spells (8,000 nuyen = 4 karma, binding = 4 karma)
* A specialization in Combat spells (7 karma)
* 10 services from a bound spirit that can add its force to your spellcasting dicepool

Yeah. Clearly 10bp for conditional +2 spellcasting dice is a bad deal. The only justification is if the quality was really about converting the drain damage into something more easily (if conditionally) managed to allow for more active pew pew pew casting. In the end, the ambiguity of the wording probably just makes it more trouble than its worth.

There is a lot I'm still learning about the rules for this edition.

The way I would read what you quoted is that you get your +2 dice for your one element at the cost of making your drain match the secondary damage of that element.  Basically if you're blasting with lighting, you're moving a lot of lighting, so if you muck it up, you get to eat part of it.

If you want to go with it, let me know and I'll go researching.  I've never been much of a min/maxer.  Rules are good and necessary, but I'd rather build a sub optimal rules character to be able to tell a better story.  In other words, I build the character then find the rules that fit the concept.

If there are other, cheaper options (which it appears there are), it may be better to go with them.

Yeah, I thought that it might be an interesting way to build a character. Water under the bridge.

Elizabeth Carver is Path of the Wheel elf from Tír na nÓg, but she was a bit too hot blooded and was a bit of a juvenile delinquent. She never crossed major lines, but was constantly being rounded up and delivered to her lodge for truancy or brawling. Finally accepting that the wayward youth needed a bit of ironing out, Carver was given the choice of 4 years understudy with DIMR or 4 years in juvenile detention. Life behind bars isn't cheery for a mage, so the choice was obvious for her, meanwhile the lodge helped Tír na nÓg meet international magical contribution benchmarks.


Mechanically I am currently trying to find a good balance between a spell slinger and unarmed combatant with a heavy focus on lightening damage. Given space, she will happily hang back and sling lighting bolts. However, up close she enhances herself with Electricity Aura and offers a good old fashioned beat down. Personality-wise she will be loud, bold, and more inclined to kick in a door than pick the lock. She is more street-wise than studied, but will have some skill with leadership and intimidation.

I am undecided between focusing more on dodge or armor for defense and still experimenting with things.I am also playing with the idea of just going all in on pain tolerance to just push past damage taken from drain rolls.

Ok i think i am done and ready to begin, i'll look over it once more but very sure.

and my thumbnail is working :-)
This message was last edited by the player at 01:22, Thu 07 Mar.

as far as game style, how serious are we going to be? My character is certainly on the Pink Mohawk side of the scale, but I can adjust her over.

Also, how heavily optimized are we looking to balance the group/table? Im currently looking at about 14 dice for unarmed or combat spellcasting and about 20 armor. Am I at a good sweet spot with the rest of yall, or should I tune up or down?

12 dice to cast 15 dice armor
This message was last edited by the player at 02:56, Thu 07 Mar.

I have basically no combat ability (no surprise there).   I do have a load of various knowledge skills and better medical skills than the medkit can provide.

As to how serious... it's a game; it's supposed to be fun.  With a pixie and a vampire to start with, I think we're tilted to the pink mohawk side of things already, which is fine with me.  Odd and flamboyant are both fine... downright silly should be limited, but it creeps in everywhere anyway.

On the realism side... depending on where you are, obvious heavy weapons, blatant violence, or some types of magic will draw attention you probably don't want, unless you're in an area that's less civilized / more outdoorsy or barrens-esque.

As to balance, it sounds like you two are about in line, but we don't have all the characters yet.  With those two as benchmarks though, that's probably a good start.

If it helps anybody, I think I'm going to go the easy route and start in Seattle.  It's a good point for smuggling you to lots of other places.  It's open enough for several types of specialized gear.  I can't find anything canon on a DIMR office in Seattle, so I'm looking at Bellevue, toward the Council Island side.  The institute can provide local motel space... not fancy, but a good enough box to sleep in.  People with more 'civilized' lifestyles are fairly close to Renton, and people on the sleeping in abandoned buildings side are reasonably close to Redmond.  And the DIMR is international, so moving elsewhere later is possible if it fits better.

I'm going to try to nail down information and lay out some plot hooks for contacts, for those that have them.  Anyone who already has names or details, let me know.  If you'd rather I try to flesh them out and fit them into the story, let me know that too.

I'd like to start towards the middle of next week or earlier if possible.  Anybody who needs more time to get together, say so.

I'm 99% Done, just making a final pass. She's lightening in a bottle. Currently going back and forth between Focused Concentration and Shock Mage

Elizabeth Carver
https://i.pinimg.com/originals...f2bff3c257d99d9f.jpg

So who wants to know an infected?  Promise i only bite if you ask, and no you dont get infected from a bite...

Is this a good time to mention that my character also happens to have a Scottish accent?  :D

As long as someone else can lug the surgical kit/medkit, then I should be good to go for field work.   Just expect me to hide when the shooting starts.

 
Have been brushing up on Tir na nog and Path of the Wheel.
The tradition is pretty big on the sanctity of the spirit since its based on the reincarnation of elven souls. As an example, they view killing a banshee as an act of mercy. I could see Carver tolerating a non-Tuatha being infected, but taking the bite jokes too far might be a good way to light a short fuse.

I am pretty close to finished; might need to be tweak a couple of things.

Elizabeth Carver
METATYPE: ELF
B 3, A 6, R 5/8, S 2, W 5, L 2, I 4, C 8, ESS 6, EDG 2, M 6
Condition Monitor (P/S): 10 / 11
Armor: 14
Limits: Physical 5, Mental 5, Social 9
Physical Initiative: 9/12+4D6
Active Skills: Etiquette 2, Gymnastics 2, Intimidation 2, Perception 5, Running 1, Spellcasting (Combat Spells +2) 6, Summoning 4, Unarmed Combat (Carromeleg +2) 6
Knowledge Skills: Bars & Clubs 3, Kung-Fu Flicks 3
Languages: English 6, Sperethiel N
Metatype Abilities: Enhanced Senses: Low-Light Vision
Qualities: Faraday Himself, Focused Concentration (5), Path of the Wheel Mystic Adept, Poor Self Control - Vindictive, This Is Your Last Chance, Tough and Targeted
Spells: Ball Lightning, Combat Sense, Electricity Aura, Levitate, Lightning Bolt, Physical Barrier, Stunbolt
Adept Powers: Elemental Body (DV 12, AP -3): Electricity, Elemental Strike: Electricity, Heightened Concern (up to -3), Improved Reflexes (3), Killing Hands
Gear:
   Armor Jacket
   Ballistic Mask w/ Gas Mask
   Elizabeth Carver w/ (1 month) Low Lifestyle
   Flashlight, Low-Light
   Renraku Sensei
   Stim Patch (6)
   Trode Patch
Weapons:
   Unarmed Strike [Unarmed, Acc 5, DV 2P, AP –]
Starting ¥: 25 + (3D6 × 60)¥

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OK, wow in the entire time i have played 5th edition i read adepts wrong... the only downside of mystic adepts is they cant astral project? and must buy their initial power points at 5 karma each.

at character generation, that's more or less correct. there are some qualities that you can or cannot qualify for, and initiation options are a bit different down the road as well.

Can't interact astrally at all, I believe.    And the 5 karma per power point cost is a big price tag, imo.

you can buy astral perception adept power, but lets be honest - if your plan was to muck about with the astral then make a proper mage.

Three done, three still working.  I'll give the ones still working a few more days.  If you're one of the ones still working, and you've changed your mind, let me know and I'll start checking with people who have asked if we have any more openings.

In reply to serrasin (msg # 69):

I ended up picking up a Cocktail Kit Pack, a Medic Pack, and a Medical Patches Pack.    His First Aid skill is higher enough that he's actually a dice or so better than the medkit computer and has the Heal spell.    Plus has Aptitude in Medicine, so long term care is easy.

In reply to Francis (Doc) MacCready (msg # 75):

I have heal spell also,  But i would expect that you are 13+ dice in first aid with med kit 3.  as a med kit 6 would be to big for you.

As long as someone lugs the rating 6 medkit, he should be just fine as he can carry the rest of his stuff.

And incidentally, he prefers "Doc".
This message was last edited by the player at 22:52, Mon 11 Mar.

We can mount a med kit to a rotor done right?

Well i have not seen anything from the other 3 people, i'm guessing they are not doing much.

Just pulling the final touches together.
Mustang: Ex-Sioux Wildcat
Human Adept Hunter, cross between Rambo and Mathayus from the Scorpion King

Main weapon is his Trollbow. He has a backup Monosword weapon focus.

His powers have a lot of detection qualities like detecting spirits, magic, motion sense, and ambushes. Think Billy from Predator who could sense the Predator even when nobody else could see it.

Sounds good.

Still have one that's mostly been working on the PM side that's still putting someone together.

Took one out who hasn't been on in over a week, and sent a message to one of the others that had sent RTJs that I didn't have space for.   We'll see if they're still interested.

So my plan is for Carver to have grown up in Belfast. Her mother died early and her father was in the military and pretty absent. From an early age she produced an em field around herself which prompted magical testing; which spiked the machine. Her father didn't want the magical talent to her head, so kept the true results secret; however he went ahead and enrolled her into the local Path of the Warrior lodge. In the mean-time the Tir Na Nog magical society took an interest in the girl's early elemental affinity.

With her father frequently away, Carver spent more time studying at the lodge where she honed fundamental fighting skills. Unfortunately, she inherited her father's temperament and would throw herself into a brawl at any provocation; though most would say that a good brawl was the traditional Belfast past time, Carver found herself more comfortable in the streets than in in her classes. There she explored her natural affinity for lightening and found ways to channel it through strikes; techniques which Path of the Warrior education didn't normally explore. The Tir magical society continued to monitor Carver and began to question if her soul had been contaminated by an air spirit; a prospect which was both intriguing, but might also spiritually disqualify her from the Path.

In order to keep Carver out of juvenile detention for fear of what that would do to her mystical and spiritual development, they wanted to get her out of the streets. In the meantime Tir Na Nog was being pressured to be more cooperative with international magical initiatives, so an opportunity was seized upon to kill two birds with one stone. Carver is being sent to DIMR as a provisional field agent in the hopes that she can be given productive outlets for her temperament where her development can continue being monitored.

let me know if any of that doesnt work for whatever reason.

I think that looks good.  I may have a couple of tweaks and refinements, but I'll get some notes together and get back to you.

I'm going to ask a really dumb question: Are we using call signs or not?

Mustang is.

Might be a good idea, at least on missions, just to keep things from coming back to you if your communications are intercepted.

So we have 7 players? Is anyone else getting a car? I think I need a trailer to haul all my drones...

My dream of deploying everyone in militarized Medical Evacuation Drones. will sadly have to wait until we can source Huge Drone weapon mounts and proper miniguns...

I dont have enough money to get a real place to live, so no car here.

No to car.

No car for Mustang. He can run as faster than most cars for 100 min straight at a time.

There is a Mack Hellhound Hauler in Rigger 5.0 if that’s the route you want to go.

    Carver will go by Princess Sparklefists, or just Carver. She doesnt have the money for a car, but she will call shotgun.

It's rarity 18 or something. If I'm paying the 10 karma to limit break rarity I'm doing it for a RCC or level 3 implant.

We all fit in an Area Roadmaster (that's the APC right) now I just need a spot to keep 15 drones...

What size drones?

1 Steel Lynx (Large)
1 "Dust off" Medical Evac Drone (Large)
12 Roto drones with sporting rifles (Medium)

Tentatively.

Might swap some of those 12 around for a Mule or a second steel lynx.

Getting closer.  Spike is almost done, and we have one more still working.

Unless someone sees a problem with it, I'm going to start the team meeting to get things going... hopefully within the next 24-48 hours.  Anybody who still is not ready can come into the meeting a little late.

I'll also take this chance to toss out a reminder that I'm still learning the rules for this edition, so if you see something I'm mangling, ruleswise, feel free to point it out.  I may not rewrite posts for it, unless it's a major change, but I can always toss in offsets somewhere else.

Is there anything on the background or otherwise that anyone needs from me?

Just making it up as i go along :-)

Am I misreading or are there two different versions of Path of the Wheel in Shadowrun?

  There are different journeys along the Path of the Wheel through reincarnations. The Ways offer knowledge and concerns related to each Paths, to help Followers and Seekers of that Path grow in their spiritual enlightenment.

Way of the North
The Way of the North is a path filled with conflict, strife, battle, pride, and ambition. This way is suited for the Path of the Warrior.[4]
It is associated with Earth, Destruction, Stone, Night, Winter, Imbolc, the province Ulster, and the ancient hero Cu Chulainn.[6]

Way of the East
The Way of the East includes farming, prosperity, hospitality, business, communications, transport, and wealth. [4]
It is associated with Air, Beginning, Sword, Dawn, Spring, Beltaine, the province Leinster, and the hero Etain.[6]

Way of the South
The Way of the South encompasses arts, music, communications, and worldly knowledge.[7]
It is associated with Fire, Increasing, the Spear, Noon, Summer, Lugnasad, the province Munster, and the hero Brigid.[6]

Way of the West
The Way of the West covers scholarly duties: learning, judgement, scholarship, and the druidic arts, focusing on inward knowledge.[7]
It is associated with Water, Maturing, Cauldron, Evening, Autum, Samhain, Connaught, and Ogma.[6]

Way of the Center
The way of the Center focuses on kingship, stability, renown, and glory.[7]
It is associated with Spirit, Ascending, Conjunction of all times, a blending of all seasons, and the hero Meath, Morrigan, Dagda.[6]

In reply to Elizabeth Carver (msg # 100):

That looks like a yes?    Street Grimoire talks about Path of the Warrior, Path of the Steward, etc.

In reply to Francis (Doc) MacCready (msg # 101):

going to join us doc?

 
Yes. Caver is Path of the Warrior for example.

Aye!  Dinnae git yer panties in a bunch!

I'm confused.    Are we meeting for the first time or have we been training together for a few weeks now?

Not sure as i have had different intros i think that was going to happen and it got changed.

I think we've all been training near each other but not together. I think he kind of tried to leave it open for we've talked or we haven't talked.

So, I've had at least ten SR 5.0 characters since 2013, many like the one here: "Valerie"

Apologies.  Had what I thought was a long weekend coming up, and my wife decided that was a great time for spring cleaning everything we could get to.  Back to work this morning to get some rest...  Should be able to get caught up here before things get busy.

On the Ways and Paths, there are essentially two groups for each... a Way for the non-magical Followers, and the Path for the magical and elven.  Magical and not elven gets a little muzzy... some references seem to say that if you're not an elf, Follower is the best you can do.

On the intro, yes, I tried to leave a little room to let you decide.  Some of you may have trained together, some not.

I'm picking and choosing from many characters created since 2013. My choice for this game is "Valerie" elf magician

Name should be changed, and it looks like you're pretty much ready to go.

Do we get paid by the DIMR? or are we like normal runners and contract payment on jobs?

Hadn't really thought deeply about it.  I was assuming base pay from DIMR, mainly for being available and following their protocols, plus hazard pay as warranted.  If anybody sees a problem with that, that I'm missing, let me know.

Not really planning on being terribly picky about the money side of things.  Base should be enough to cover basic living expenses.  Unless it's something extravagant, the DIMR can help with gear.  And the better they like what you do, the more flexible they get for gear.  Wouldn't count on them buying a replacement car, but ammo, normal guns, comms, lower end lodge materials, that sort of thing, they can probably handle.

I'm looking more at the karma side for rewards.  Still just trying to wrap my mind around basic to generous karma for this edition.

If someone has a deep need for financial rewards, we can probably work in a couple of side jobs that might still have something to do with the general direction the story is going; they just might not look like it up front.

Well i have a "debt" i need to pay off so as long as there is enough to keep the debt at bay it is fine with me.

So. Money is just as much a form of XP as Karma is.

A to E Attributes is ~165-210 Karma
A to E Skill is around ~100-350 Karma
A to E Money is (444,000/2000) 222 Karma

I hadn't done those breakdowns before, very interesting.

Granted you said up front you were favoring Karma rewards so I built accordingly.

If you wanted to stick with a living expenses type situation you could let us trade Karma for cash? Representing "corporate requisitions"?

My question on that type of arrangement would be repairs, I'm paying for a workshop in my living situation and I bought a drone with autosofts for doing repairs. But obviously both of those are worse than what DIMR could supply.

money and karma are very much related in this system,  Cybernetic characters really are the best to take long term advantage of the system as they can get use from both cash and karma, magic characters are more weighted to karma and cash quickly means very little to them usually.

In reply to Spike Breakdown (msg # 115):

Not to nitpick, but the karma cost for attributes isn't balanced that way.    A troll character (for example) pays far more karma to raise their body attribute than does a human, which is one of my many sticking points with the whole Karma Character Creation system that Adam devised back in the 2nd edition days.

Ya, you could drive the numbers somewhat higher. But still, there was a logic to how they assembled the priorities.

We all know the proems with exponential scaling XP costs in games.

Shadowrun rewards min maxing more than some other games as character points don’t suffer the penalty

Literally the same issue as every other game. To be fair that is mostly White Wolf/OPP games. I guess Ars Magica uses exponential scaling but only has the one form of XP.

So it's better to do both, is what I'm hearing.  Is that right?

If that's the case, we'll stick to standard karma and use the 'hazard pay' for cash.  I'll have to do some looking to see what fair rates are. It won't give you as much room for negotiation as a 'normal' Johnson, but you also have some extra bumps available for equipment requisition to reflect negotiations.

For repairs, DIMR probably doesn't have a lot of facilities for that, but we can build something into the storyline if you prefer that to using your own.

Didn't even realize Ars Magica still existed, much less that they were up to 5th Edition.  I played one game by email in first edition.  Interesting system, interesting setting.  I may have to go look after I get caught up with Shadowrun.

They announced a remastered version of 5th edition in just the last few months even!

I bought my own repair solution because I expected to need it. I can keep improving it with cash and time.

We are also all a bunch of criminals so we will be stealing whatever we can get our grubby little paws on weather DIMR tells us to or not.

Nice.  I'll have to go take a look.

On the all a bunch of criminals side of things, just remember that actions have consequences.  Things picked up on runs are pretty much fair game, like they would be for a 'normal' Shadowrun game, but don't look for a lot of 'extra-curricular' options and opportunities.

I'm a little confused about the mission and possibly the game as a whole.

Why are we doing this job? What right does DIMR have to look at a Genetronics warded parts storage?

Like are we just stealing their stuff because DIMR wants it?

Yes this is where i was going to leave it at, pull the curtain, and come back after.

Elizabeth taking off her shirt in the room, well couldnt let that pass.

It occurred to me that if you promise Miyako a romp in the sack and a snack after you can probably get her to do just about anything, as that satisfies two of her three main addictions.

the last one for obvious reasons probably dont want to satisfy that one unless you think you have the essence to spare.

Except that Doc isn't a criminal, or at least I'd never written him with the expectation that he was.   This kinda confirms a mismatched expectations that I was suspecting.

honestly, come to think about it, typically i dont take time to loot bodies most of the time in shadowrun.  Sometimes a quick search for cred sticks or something small.

Sometimes the story teller says there is this cool thing and that gets absconded because the ST said it was cool.

So probably not a lot of five finger discount just because from me.

Though as a vampire. if i have 2-3 minutes, i might have a bite to eat from someone.
This message was last edited by the player at 00:23, Fri 29 Mar.

Do you have a SIN?

Does all your gear have permits?

Are you willing to break into another corp's secure facility because a spirit told us there was a secure room down there?

In reply to Spike Breakdown (msg # 129):

Does your character?   Because the tone of your post leads me to say: None of your business.

Absolutely not. I'm pretty sure it's a crime to step within 100ft of my van!

Carver isnt a criminal and has a national SIN, but I didnt take it cuz that wouldnt really be a negative quality with the sort of game where you're working for the man.

Ok, questions asked in character to clarify some of this. But to me this looks like a smash and grab just like any other job. We are doing crimes on someone's payroll. We literally might murder some people.

My fault.  Let's back up a little bit and let me stop assuming people can read my mind (a very old bad habit of mine).  Sing out of any of this breaks things for anyone's characters, or is really wide of anyone's expectations.

Here are a few general expectations that would have been covered in your training.

Killing people is discouraged, but is recognized as possibly necessary on missions.

The DIMR doesn't strictly have legal rights to invade a Gaeatronics facility, that's why they have semi-deniable assets like you.

The DIMR is professionally nosy about magical items and creatures... especially ones in places where they really don't belong, and where they don't officially exist.

They also don't have any law enforcement type rights, but DIMR 'investigators' have been known to provide information to legitimate law enforcement in the past.

Anyone have other questions, or have assumptions that seriously conflict with what I'm describing so far?

shadowrun as a genre/game mostly handwaves the consequences of break ins and such.

I almost always start with stun damage attacks, at least until the op4 starts chucking lethal damage, and even then i usually stick to stun.  I operate under the assumption that if i use stun damage attacks as a default, at some point when i annoy someone big enough they will come after me with stun damage also.

So we are only vaguely more legit than a normal runner team.

I'm not set up for non-lethal. Reasonably my non lethal option is using NoizQuito to issue a warning that I can back up with overwhelming firepower.

In reply to Spike Breakdown (msg # 136):

Not sure what your using, but gel/stick n shock rounds are a thing and easy to get.

That sounds just like me and pretty much every game I've ever run here.    Otherwise, no additional questions or concerns.

Only slightly more legit is a good way to describe it.  Trying to be the good guys, but not dumb enough to get shot for it is another decent description.

Recon and blowing out security systems rather than people are two other good non-lethal options.  But for this one, subtle may be best all around.

That ALWAYS starts out as the plan for any run! The real problem is when the plan goes to hell and we have to shoot our way out (potentially with stun bullets I guess).

Note to self: look at the logistics of driving a van through a wall and getting it back out after.

Most of the time i dont think i have ever actualyl had a map for shadowrun usually i just get a description and we ask some questions and then try and make a plan.

then the plan usually works half way through the mission and we then have to try and get out after it goes wrong.

I suspect that no map is actually more common.  I've noticed that the rulebooks are very map light.  In the earlier editions I played, the rulebooks had at least a few.  And after digging, there aren't nearly as many mapping resources for modern / cyberpunk / sci-fi as there are for fantasy.  Either way, we'll make it work.

And 'no plan survives contact with the enemy' is true in may settings. :)

Dropping back to the money issue, for a simple run, which this hopefully is, looks like the normal base is about 3k nuyen per runner.  Does that sound right, or am I misreading somewhere?

If so, we'll start that as basic hazard pay, and when you get assigned more dangerous jobs, there will be stages up from there.

Negotiation for additional pay can take place during assignments, or take place between jobs, in which case the 'extra pay' can come as additional company resources, gear, and other assistance.

How does that sound?

May I make a suggestion? Mages hardly need Nuyen while riggers and street Sam need a lot. This is usually reflected in how they pick their priorities at chargen. These same characters usually need an equivalent amount to “upgrade”. What if Nuyen was reflected by what level Resources was selected at? Base at E level is 2k then goes up by 2k each level. The opposite goes for karma.

I believe that the number I usually use is 10k per runner per run as well as three to five karma; with the corollary that a run is roughly four hours of play time.   The rewards are a lot more generous than earlier versions, which was really something that was needed (at least on the nuyen side).

As a suggestion: Go ahead and use the run awards like normal; but allow players to either bank or convert to karma (immediately, not a game month later) the nuyen awards.   That should allow mages to get the karma but also have a budget for getting stuff like new foci.   I'd also handwave lifestyle (middle by default) plus consumables like ammunition and medical supplies.

Mustang, I'll take a look at the numbers and see if I see anything that looks like a red flag there.  The issue I have is that employers generally don't pay that way.  I haven't run across anything that I remember in what I've read so far, but I think there used to be some way to convert cash to karma just for this type of thing.  Does anyone know of an option for that in 5e, and can point me to the rules?

Doc, I started with the Run Rewards section from the Core book.  I might double it up front, just because with RPOL speeds, rewards do need to be higher to have any emotional meaning.

On a personal note, I just found out I have to go to a funeral on Friday morning that's about 11-12 hours drive from my house.  I'll post here tomorrow, then depending on what access and time I have available, and how I feel after driving that much and back again, I may or may not post again before Sunday or Monday.

Some of us saw the game state and planned accordingly... I would not appreciate the reward schedule being changed after the fact.

Like I had said before if we want something like that give primarily Karma rewards and let us spend our good will with the organization (Karma) for requisitions from their resources (Nuyen).

I will likely use more ammo than the rest of the party combined. I also have extras on my lifestyle I paid for. Those things are part of the game and I would have made different choices in character creation if they were being handwaved.


Sorry for your loss.

Yeah, 3k is the base number; and it tends to go up rather when the opposition does.   I've found that pretty much anything with a professional rating higher than zero drives up the cost; and that's not even getting into the other modifiers.

I believe that the rule for 5th edition is "1 karma = 2000 nuyen", with a limit of five karma per award.   Though the rule location is escaping my search, atm.

That's for character creation. I don't believe there is a standing rule that allows for it in pkay. If there were this wouldn't be a discussion I imagine.

As long as it is consistent  it can be made to work.  Typically there is some of both.

Maybe if you are looking for something that usually is just Neuyen then work with the GM to figure it out.

I'd also have done it a bit differently if I knew that expenses (including lifestyle) were going to be hand waved.   Lifestyle is double cost, after all.

And it's 10 karma to nuyen only during character creation.  I know that I've read 1 karma = 2000 nuyen somewhere in one of the 5th edition source-books.

apparently it is in the missions FAQ




This message was last edited by the player at 16:26, Tue 02 Apr.

In reply to Spike Breakdown (msg # 152):

*thumbs up*

1K for 2,000Y makes sense.

Granted it is from the mission FAQ so not necessarily something you assume you can always do in an independent game. It's functionally a houserule for the living campign.

But it's an acceptable base line for converting some extra X's into Y's slowly over time. (assuming you weren't a fool and took the Day Job quality)

Just think in like a year in game you could catch up to my A level starting cash. (And my drones will still be better at piloting themselves than I am...)

Let's try this then...

We'll start with a base of 6k nuyen per run, when the DIMR honestly expects minimal hazard.  If they expect higher hazards, the rate goes up accordingly, using the multipliers in the Run Rewards section.  If it turns out they're wrong on the hazards, they may go for the higher values, but that would be a negotiation.

Whatever the final total is on the rewards for a given run, each character can take their reward in cash, requisitioned gear, or karma at the 1/2k rate with a max of 5 karma exchanged per run.

If that doesn't sound fair to anyone, let me know and I'll try again.

Is that on top of Karma or are we relying on the conversion.

Is requisition just flavor or is there a mechanic im missing?

Overall it seems fair.

In reply to TheGM (msg # 156):

Just making sure i understand, we would get some of each and can then convert  either way?  p371/2 generally there is some of both awarded.

It looks like a minimal run with low danger is 3-5 karma and 3,000-6000 cash before multipliers or extras.

I should have said that I own all of the sourcebooks. Unfortunately, i cannot locate some of them. :(

So i dont forget, I'm driving to see the eclipse Monday, so probably little or no posting for me until Tuesday.

So, can/should I actually just stay in this conference room and send a drone over?

It would seem to make the most sense to discuss a plan first. The mages among us could recon astrally, individually, together, or even accompany the drone.

Apologies.  I'm going to take one more day away.  Buried in work trying to get caught up from being out.

In reply to TheGM (msg # 163):

We're not going anywhere, take your time.

Okay.  Let's see if I can catch up. :)

Yes, you get both nuyen and karma, and can convert either way.  Max conversion is 5 karma either from cash to karma or from karma to cash per run.

Requisition is just flavor, though I'll go with a 5% discount on requisitions if it's something legal, or something you can convince the DIMR and Sylvia that you need to get their job done.

And yes, Miyako, those look like reasonable numbers for a low danger run, I'll probably push toward the higher end here on both, just because RPOL games move so slow.

I don't have all of the sourcebooks for 5e.  I have several that I pulled in a Humble bundle not long ago, but that's all I have.  I do have several for editions 1-3.

Hope anyone who went eclipse watching had a good time.  I stepped out into the parking lot at work for a few minutes, but we only got about 50% here if I read right, plus it was cloudy.  Then we had thunderstorms all afternoon and evening.

Haven't read the IC thread yet, but yes, any time you're ready to start recon, coordinated or individually, jump in and let me know what you're doing.  I will say that planning and coordinating is typically safer, but in this game format, you can talk an adventure to death pretty easily.

I think that's everyone's questions.  If I missed somebody, feel free to repeat.

In reply to TheGM (msg # 165):

THis has much of the gear in its various pages so i find it helpful

http://adragon202.no-ip.org/Sh.../index.php/Main_Page


Most if not all of the pdfs can be found online

https://thyamath.com/ has many of them, but you have to google to get the links.

In reply to TheGM (msg # 165):

I went outside long enough to get a good look before going back to what I was doing.   It was basically a "That's nice" moment for me, but understandable why everyone else gets excited over it.

Doc has nothing to add In Character, mostly because the only things he knows about B&E are what he's seen in the vids.

Thanks.  I prefer to stick to legal copies, at least for anything that's still in print.  I have been known to pull a pirate copy if it's something I'm not sure I want, but I either buy it or ditch it when I decide.  May just be a self justification, but I equate it with flipping through a copy on a store shelf. :)

Well i  think i bought every source book for SR5 that came out so i'm covered.

I have seen the first session go with the group splitting up,  Then when they did all their stuff, realizing they didn't make a meeting place/time or exchange comm codes.

I realize there are things that need to be done separately, but the more we can keep the team together, the better off I think we are.

I've had a couple of PMs for people wanting to lone wolf off on their own, and I'd like to head that off early, if possible.  One of the things I said up front is that a cohesive team was the goal.

Part of that is purely selfish on my part.  I don't have time to run five individual games, even with a common purpose.

Part of that is, I think, built into the setting... there's safety in numbers, even if those numbers are spread over a block or two.

In reply to TheGM (msg # 171):

Which is one of the reason that I want a lab or clinic for Doc.   I'm thinking that it'll give everyone a place to hang out (as I'm not expecting that it'll be "just" a lab).  Hopefully, after the intro run; we'll be able to work on that whole team thing.  :D

Well I'm just going to the 'store' with Valerie it looks like, and maybe a nap and then the meeting point.
This message was last edited by the player at 01:45, Fri 12 Apr.

sorry, its been harder than normal for me to sneak moments away from work this week.

Send Valerie a heads up please, so she knows.

In reply to Valerie (msg # 175):

Sorry I misread ""I can assist Miyako with utilizing the disguise efforts."  as you were going with.

No worries.

Should I make the entirely gratuitous Chinese food joke now?   ^_^

Oh. I can do a Matrix Perception from my Drone...

Or maybe my Agent can. Spike had like a D in skills so HE doesn't do much himself if he can avoid it.

Spike, if you want to try the Matrix perception, go ahead and make the roll and sing out on the IC thread.

That brings up the subject of rolls in general.  If  you're doing something that you know you need a roll for, go ahead and make the roll.  To keep from swamping everyone with rolls, when you're pasting in rolls, feel free to mark them as a private line to the GM.

Now, a question from my side.  Does anyone have a problem if I make a roll in the dice roller if I need something that's not sent, to keep things moving, or would you rather I call for rolls.  If there's a split... I can roll skills, but call for rolls for anything that can cause damage, or whatever the break is, let me know.

whatever works for you.

I generally wait for a roll to be called for in RP stuff,  If the GM wants you to find something, why let the botch ruin the story progression. in combat it is clear.

Great.

Do what saves time to keep it moving. Call for rolls when things can break, however!

 In reply to TheGM (msg # 179):

feel free to roll on my behalf for common or passive checks if you feel that would expedite things. If it's a decision point, then her MO is to punch it or lightning bolt it.

Roll whatever for me but keep in mind that my stuff is weird sometimes.

Feel free to roll on my behalf.

Sounds good.  Thanks.

And yes, if it's something that can break, bleed, or have one shot without chance for recovery, I'm way more likely to ask for rolls.  But if it's whether you notice the guy following you, when he'll probably be following for a bit, I'll roll to keep things moving.

Asking for rules help this time, or at least pointers to the right places to look.  I'm still learning, and now I'm running in circles on this part, so I'll ask in the interest of speed.

Does cyberware show up in the matrix?  And if it's slaved to a commlink or deck, how obvious is that?  Or does it depend on the 'ware?  (Or on the perceiver's rolls?)

Cyberware if the wireless is active will show up as an icon.  If wireless is off, or they have an internal router it does not.  Slaving to a commlink does nothing in 5th edition.

Summary wireless if  (on) (off) or (internal router = off)

Why do you want it on?  bonuses for each piece often specify wirelsss on,  bad about wireless on?  it is matrix visable and can be hacked.


Obvious?

Obvious cyberware marked as such, arms/legs etc.  Other pieces are not well defined on perception, so totally GM call imho. Can you see someone with wired reflexes?  not until they roll init.

Seems from the text that you usually see the icon for someone's PAN and immediately see anything super interesting (like his gun) but you CAN opt to see they he has a comm link with paired ear buds, trodes, and AR contacts. Which would all be innocuous excepting that we expect he's some sort of security and 2/3rds of that is needed for a smartlink.

Can I see the model of gun and commlink. There is a big difference between someone rolling around with a DR1 prepaid, someone with a Blue Defender, and someone with an actually high end commlink.

Similarly there is a difference between someone with a cheap Russian automatic and a top of the line Ares handgun.

Thanks to both of you.  Sounds like I'm not too far off in what I'm understanding so far.  I've been doing some more fast reading, but I'd like to do a little more this evening, so I'm going to hold the IC post until tomorrow.

Spike, I'll see if I can get answers to your questions or find out what you'll need to do in order to be able to tell.  That one may take some sort of more active matrix look around.

I'm going to have to disagree on the slaving to a commlink does nothing, since the first line in the PANs and WANs section of the core rulebook says: If you want extra protection for some of your devices, you can slave them to your commlink or deck.  (Unless there's a change further in that I've not seen yet.)

And I've been reading the wireless advantages section on some of the gear, and some of those advantages are just odd.  Wireless throwing knives and shuriken???

One more question I haven't found an answer to yet.  If you have a decker providing overwatch... slaving your gear to his deck... how do people know when they see you in the matrix?

I think this might help,

Slaving to a comm link lets it use the firewall of the device instead of its own if any.  I had assumed that each device has its own device rating, but it appears that cyberware without being slaved to a comm or deck does not have a firewall.  let me do some more research on that.

also:

Rules as they are written (RAW): You may only only slave data process number of devices to a commlink or cyberjack (and device rating x 3 drones to a remote command console). This indirectly mean that each member of the team will have a small PAN that they themselves defend (and that most of their devices will not be protected by a firewall at all). It also mean that if each individual network are running silent then someone need to successfully take individual opposed matrix perception tests to spot them. If a hostile hacker gain access he will only gain access to one of the networks.

Rules as the author originally intended them (RAI): You [house] rule that PANs may be daisy-chained to create one big network that normally the team's technology specialist (decker, rigger, living network technomancer) is defending. This indirectly mean that if the network is running silent and someone successfully take an opposed matrix perception test then this someone will spot the whole silent running network. It also mean that if a hostile hacker gain access then he will be considered to be on the inside and have access on the whole daisy-chained network at once.

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95% of all Cyberware cannot be hacked. This is especially so for Bioware. The reason being is that almost all cyberware is directly hooked up to a person's CNS (central nervous system) and don't give off a wireless signal.

The biggest example would be Cyber Eyes. As a standard issue cyber replacement, they cannot be hacked and bricked. ONLY when you introduce a wireless component -- such as vision enhancement (which has a wireless bonus) -- are you then subjected to the threat of opposing deckers. Basically, if it's wireless, it can be hacked.

Chromed Shadowrunners typically want to have a decker watching their back. Established Runners (character gen) typically should take the highest rating commlink and slave their wireless gear to that 12 dice firewall (Device Rating + Firewall).

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Augmentations without a rating have a device rating of 2, 3 for Alphaware, 4 for betaware and 5 for deltaware. SR5 p. 421 Device Rating table.
This message was last edited by the player at 20:25, Tue 16 Apr.

I think you're right about the no firewall for 'ware or devices that aren't slaved.  'Ware without wireless bonuses, or with wireless turned off can't be seen or affected from the matrix.

I think most runners would slave anything wireless to their commlink PAN as a matter of course, to the point I'm willing to take that as a basic assumption, unless someone states it's slaved to something else, like a decker's deck.

On the connection to the nervous system, the way I'm reading things is that for wireless 'ware, a hacker can turn it off (if they can get through the defenses), brick it completely, or issue commands to it.  If it's turned off, you can turn it back on with a simple action (Change Device Mode?).  Bricked is bricked... If they issue a command you can issue your own from the nervous system interface.  Not sure if you can do that with an interrupt action.

I'm still trying to decide if you can slave your commlink, with your gear slaved to it, to another device, like a secondary commlink or a decker's deck.  And how technomancers fit into that whole puzzle is a completely separate set of headaches.

For now, in practical terms, if any of you want to mess with somebody's 'ware or other devices, you're free to try.  I'm not going to have them mess with yours until I'm a lot more certain of my rulings.
=====================================

That said, I think I was wrong to let Spike see his gun via matrix at range... it should only be visible within that 100m radius where the individual wireless connections are talking.  Not going to change it now though.  From the office, just casually, you should see his persona unless he's running silent.  Anything else should take a Matrix Perception check.

Within that 100m, you would see his persona, a commlink icon for his PAN, and things that are 'matrix obvious' like weapons and maybe smartlink systems.  Going deeper would take a check.  That applies to people looking at you as well.

To determine the ratings and models on his gear should also take a deliberate Matrix Perception check.  (There are apparently some gun companies that use nonstandard icons that are obvious what they are, but keep in mind that icons can be replaced by the users.)

And if anyone can point me to rules for noticing if someone is checking you out in the Matrix, please do.

Now, let's see if I can get things back on the rails.

And now, a world style question.  Doesn't really affect the game... just trying to understand.

I'm trying to wrap my head around the AROs and commlinks everywhere.  As I understand it, if you don't have a datajack, and I wouldn't think those are everywhere, you have to use something else to even see AROs.

Trodes will get you the full experience, and I'm guessing they let you interact with AROs as well.  Basically it's a datajack that's just not drilled into your head.

If you don't have trodes, you need goggles, glasses or wireless contacts to see; you need earbuds or headphones or something to hear, plus you need AR gloves to be able to interact.  That seems like a lot of gear; am I missing something somewhere?

What do most people use?  School kids?  Soccer moms?  Normal saririmen?  The guy behind the counter at the Stuffer Shack?  What do people use who live in the Barrens, and aren't shadowrunners?  Like with cellphones today, do you have people 'zombie-walking' the streets and possibly out into traffic?  (With a side issue of how does Grid Guide deal with wandering pedestrians?)

Does the gear you use to interact with your commlink and AROs say something about you, socially?  Do people laugh at goggle wearers?

I imagine most people have goggles or contacts that can see on AR. It's how you interact with everything basically and they are relatively cheap. Even without I expect you can pull a Google cardboard and hold your phone up to see the AROs around you.

I was pretty sure trodes are an input not an output. So you don't see with trodes you can just send texts without using your hands and such.

---

My thoughts was that I AM within 100m because I have hardware in the area. As opposed to just zipping there in VR.

Slaving master devices is weird. It becomes a whole thing with personas. I think that is what is stopping me from having 15 agents all running errands for me at once but I would have to look at the details again.

In reply to TheGM (msg # 191):

As i dont have cyberware, it does not affect, me, but cyberware that is wireless off, or on an internal router can only be hacked using induction: IE touching it with a deck with the induction add on.

If they can get a mark, They could data spike it, but that only does matrix damage which is 'fairly' easy to repair.

Obviously your game and you can rule 0 what ever you want.



Yes



Sort of, data jack gives 1 noise reduction and cant just be removed



Yep sounds right



Well mages are a thing and they will always (#rarely) not even get even a data port, so there are always people who would just use other means.  Installation of cyberware in children generally is not done because they grow up and would need additional surgeries.

As far as other people, sure some people look down on those with less/without.

If you are just doing something light weight, i would assume you can hold up your comm, and just look on the screen for advertising and such.

Well as my kids VR goggles have a visual safety ring, i would assume that AR rigs would all have a safety system to prevent/alert for obvious danger.

As far as how much people are lost in AR? GM call on how prevalent it is.

Right now Miyako i guess can see because she has data link in her helmet. but she uses it more for the camera aspect then AR.

I remember now. The reason I can't Deck and Rig is that I couldn't have drones slaved to the RCC and then have the RCC slaved to my Deck.

Core says Commlinks can also have DRx3 slaves. I was trying to find where it talks about having your team slaves to your deck so you can be their babysitter but I'm not seeing it.

I think the middle ground is that you can have Master/Slave trains but there has to be a personna at each master layer. Weather that means I could jump into someone else's slaved drone or not? Unclear, just tell me no for safety.

Thanks to both of you.

Hardware within the 100m radius makes sense.  I just hadn't thought about it that way.

Slaving things to a deck for babysitting seems to pretty much covered in PANs and WANs, then the example box on the same page.  It's the same DRx3 slave limit.  I thought I'd seen something where that could be raised, but I'm not finding it now.  Don't remember if it was hardware or software either.

Now I have a new thing to research too... riggers taking over other people's drones, plus deckers and remote control drones...

On the In Character side of things, does anyone have questions or need anything from me to decide what you're doing next?

I don't think there is. But I'm also curious about that since I'm at my limit unless I spend like 100k on the next DR up RCC. I'm actually over my limit but I don't need my Iron man style shop drone slaved on runs. It can just hang out.


Basically Riggers can't unless we get access to Sleaze or Attack so we can get marks (I suppose I could run the cyber program that increase it...) But we need three marks then we can Jump in Just like our normal drones.

Deckers can hack my drones out in the field just like everything else but since they are slaved to my RCC they have to deal With the 12 defense Dice from my RCC.

riggers taking over other people's drones : hacking skill and 1 mark with a cyber deck, which would allow you to issue commands which the pilot program of the drone would operate... It does not allow you to control it with your skills, or assign it to an RCC only issue drone pilot commands

To actually tie the drone to an RCC and pilot it..  from a forum post



Basically what spike said.
This message was last edited by the player at 13:09, Thu 18 Apr.

I actually went over this with my IN person Referee last night. It would be a whole different build to make a "Pirate Rigger" Who doesn't have an RCC but uses a Deck and a Control Rig. Since you can still Jump in just not Jump around with just a Control Rig and no RCC. Plus you can apparently slave just as many devices. No noise reduction but I have the coffin to stay close anyway so I wasn't planning on having huge amounts of noise to begin with.

Honestly If I had thought of it as an option at the time. I might have built Spike that way since I don't actually have a strong incentive to jump around much anyway. I suck so my drones are better at everything that me until I need to do vehicle tests and can use the difficulty reduction.

Interesting.  May do some digging specifically along those lines, but for now, it sounds like the practical answer is 'no'.

 are we waiting to finish recon before reconvening as a group?

Are we at the spot or still at the meeting point?

I don't think we ever met back up. Because I never introduced my van.

yeah. i think we need to get back onto the same timeline. lol

We are close enough to the target that I can deploy my drones from the base and just fly them there?

How fast and loose are you playing with legality? Because I COULD have taken the turret off my van.

OK well as the GM has not even logged in in 3 weeks, i'm putting this on the dead game pile.

If it becomes active it should pop back up for me.

*wave*

Still a perfect score I see.   -.-

Oh well, better luck next game, everyone.

That is disappointing. I had such high hopes. Better luck next time Chummers.

Yes. Oh, well.

R I P

I'll sound off too, catch you later fam.