tibiotarsus
 member, 183 posts
 Hopepunk with a shovel
Sat 11 Jul 2020
at 20:27
Re: Argh
SunRuanEr:
Sometimes, with friends, the most shocking thing with politics is when you didn't realize that your friend was part of Politic Group Whatever You Don't Like, and then find it out at a later date. Now, you'd think that most people would be able to (it seems in this day and age) pretty reliably guesstimate where people stand, but sometimes they can't. Sometimes they're willfully ignorant. Sometimes, they convince themselves otherwise, and when informed in no uncertain terms that they were wrong - they lose it.


For sure. The core of the matter is that one has to be very, very lucky to be so unaffected by politics as to treat it all as a logic puzzle. Sometimes it's less Politics You Don't Like and more Politics That Will Get You Killed, and some people don't want to reckon with their own place in an unfair world that doesn't have to be if they'd just put their backs into changing it.

As a non-political example, the linguistic bias of the English language that enshrined an official male default in certain Anglophone countries in the 1930s/40s led to no-one ever thinking to make female-shaped crash test dummies or bulletproof vests, causing a higher percentage of female-shaped human beings to subsequently be killed in crashes/shootings. That's no one person's fault, no grand conscious conspiracy to murder that category of person, just a lot of men unconsciously spending their lives cradle to testing-room thinking 'he' was the default state of a human with nothing to snap them out of it, due to a language and culture that prioritised their bodies and their participation in nascent automobile safety. Those car-crashed or war-shot women who might have been anything had they lived no longer exist, and didn't have to die. Passive bias doesn't make those people any less dead than someone with active hatred and an axe, though.

So social bias is a variable one has to take into account here, like...does this chemistry teacher have a lifetime's experience of being born a [person type] if they're talking about policy that disproportionately affects that type and the "reputable" sources are all [other person type with typically greater access to academia] taught on books written by [that type] with 0 years experience being [affected type]. If so, the decades of practical rather than merely theoretical experience needs factored in above all else. If not, then they're just a chem teacher spouting off.

With apologies to praguepride if those ex-friends were terrified to a truly remarkable extent by the big S, it's just that I've met an awful lot of bad faith "debate lovers" who can't apply that bit of basic scientific rigour, and thus can't actually be politically debated any more than someone who's looked at lots of pictures of cars driving around can be trusted to fix one, and had to add that.

Also, that if someone wants other people to cease to exist for how they were born - actively or passively, axe or deliberately cultivated ignorance - then they cannot and should not be respected or tolerated. Desiring harm to others, no matter how nebulously, for nothing they have done or chosen to be - that is, deliberate and baseless cruelty - is incompatable with being a good person.
Shannara
 moderator, 3861 posts
 When in doubt,
 frolic!
Sun 12 Jul 2020
at 11:12
Re: Argh
While things have been fairly civil and not too insulting, let's move the topic back off politics, please.

Let's keep this a politics free zone.
belovedshadows
 member, 99 posts
Mon 13 Jul 2020
at 00:02
Re: Argh
Jarodemo:
In reply to belovedshadows (msg # 1568):

Iím just waiting for the 2020 boss level. Going to be freakiní awesome!!!

I shudder to imagine. I mean it really is like a game of Jumangji
Isida KepTukari
 member, 354 posts
 Elegant! Arrogant! Smart!
Mon 13 Jul 2020
at 00:37
Re: Argh
Close the door!

I work in an un-air-conditioned factory that, in summer, frequently reaches to over 100 F on the floor, oftentimes with fairly high humidity.  There are air conditioning units in the offices and break rooms, but I swear some people think they are trying to cool the great outdoors.

My shared office is not even ten feet square, and contains a mini fridge, large office printer, and two computers (in addition to the two people who use it at any given time).  So the AC unit had plenty of heat to battle already, in addition to the general heat outside.  And yet a shocking amount of people, ranging from the supervisor, crew members looking to ask questions, or my co-worker, will just open the door and stand there with the door open nice and wide, the AC merrily chugging all the cold air directly out the door onto the sweltering factory floor.  They seem completely oblivious to the fact that they just turned the nice cool office into a barely tepid room, rapidly turning into one as hot at the outside while they stand there and blab.

Now, they could be sharing the nice cool office while they talk to me if they'd just shut the ding-dang door, but no, it seems that many of them were born in a barn and think nothing of leaving the door gaping wide.  I've taking to snapping out "shut the door!" almost as soon as they get inside, if it looks like they're going to keep it open while they talk "just for a minute".  It's never a minute.  Between the mandated masks, the loudness of the factory floor, and that at least one of the talkers is usually wearing earplugs, there's always a lot of "What?" going back and forth before we understand what's being asked.

Take the full step inside, shut the door, talk in the quiet cool.  Don't talk through the open door while the AC struggles to cool planet Earth!
ShadoPrism
 member, 1324 posts
 OCGD-Obsessive-Compulsive
 Gamer-Disorder
Mon 13 Jul 2020
at 02:23
Re: Argh
In reply to Isida KepTukari (msg # 1575):

They don't care of how much electricty is being used or that the company has to pay for it either. Allot of people are just oblivious to the world around them.
Stuff like that makes me want to put those hydrolic door arms on the door, to pull the door closed automatically. Set it strong enough and maybe someone will get a clue.
Isida KepTukari
 member, 355 posts
 Elegant! Arrogant! Smart!
Mon 13 Jul 2020
at 05:50
Re: Argh
It's not even the electricity (goodness knows we waste more running the machines than we could ever use up on the AC units), it's the fact that they blatantly let the office get warm.  If someone did that in the break room or their personal offices, they'd raise heck, but because it's my office, for some reason they seem to think because it's small they can just open the door and leave it open to talk.

It actually takes a bit of time to cool it down again, and the heat is punishing enough that I don't want my cool-down room to be constantly lukewarm.

It's the discourtesy more than the energy consumption I find particularly maddening.
Dream Sequence
 member, 60 posts
 Certainly the loveliest,
 most civilized of us all
Mon 13 Jul 2020
at 12:06
Re: Argh
Can you lock your door?  I imagine that would learn 'em right quick.
Isida KepTukari
 member, 356 posts
 Elegant! Arrogant! Smart!
Mon 13 Jul 2020
at 12:45
Re: Argh
Can't. They don't give us keys, and the office is shared by eight people over four shifts. I just have to drill common courtesy into these AC-wasting fools.
Dara
 member, 382 posts
Mon 13 Jul 2020
at 12:48
Re: Argh
Next time someone comes to your door like that do the following:  Smile, go over and shake their hand.  Then while you still have their hand gently guild them into the room and shut the door behind them.

If they ask you what you are doing, calmly tell them what you've said here.  If they try to argue with you, ask them if they would like it if you went to their office and did the same thing.
SunRuanEr
 subscriber, 292 posts
Mon 13 Jul 2020
at 13:26
Re: Argh
Could you maybe post a sign on the door that says something to the effect of 'Please close the door behind you promptly, so all the cold air we're holding hostage doesn't escape'? (Or maybe something funnier and wittier that is escaping me this morning, due to lack of caffeine...)
Yaztromo
 supporter, 367 posts
Mon 13 Jul 2020
at 14:17
Bureaucrats!
I hate when they keep pointing at somebody else, that will point at somebody else again and again, avoiding purposefully to give you the straightforward answer!!!
Kessa
 member, 611 posts
 Dark Army:
 Out to Lunch
Sat 25 Jul 2020
at 22:00
That old slight of hand....
Got sold on taking this job in June that was made out to be something it was definitely not with a company that was overstated in every way.

Here we are almost at the end of July and on Monday I'm going to be co-running this company for an absentee company president who will most surely fire me and my soon-to-be co-manager for keeping the business afloat while he handles extended family business. Did I say afloat? Yes, literally. This place is about to go under completely and it sure would have been nice to have known that two months ago so I could have gone over its books and accounts fully to work on our funding before all our lines of credit declined one after the other on Friday.

The other rub? Neither me or my soon-to-be co-manager are managers. Or even directly in the management chain of command and she's only been at this place a month longer than me and works part-time. So, what that translates into is me. I'm going to be running a company I've only been at two months in an industry I have no experience in for the hearty reward of probably being fired for it as soon as the company president gets back.

Only bonus? If somehow it doesn't go under, I get to put some ridiculous quals on my resume for whatever my next job is, which can only be better than this place.
cheezeoflegends
 member, 3 posts
Sun 26 Jul 2020
at 04:59
I'm sorry I can't get your tiny ice cream cups
I work in retail, specifically frozen foods, and the job has been really grinding me down lately. Sure the stockpiling blitz everyone went on a while ago at the start of the pandemic was harrowing, but we're used to high traffic.

What is grinding me down is the lack of supply. We're only a regional chain, so while we're not as unlucky as smaller stores it's hell getting frozen food to shelve at times. For two months we've only had two flavors of waffle and finally got waffles to stock, and we're still fighting for Blue Bunny ice cream.

There's backstock, but only of things that don't sell super fast. Moreso than usual all we have is what's on the shelf. Two days ago there was literally nothing in the storage freezer but ice. Though we did finally get a truck in.

I'm losing hours because I don't have any work to do because pretty much all we have to shelve is right off the truck and stays on the shelf all day with no need to stock more even if we do have more (we probably don't).

It's freaking nuts and stressful. I'm slightly worried I might be scheduled fewer days or be cut completely.

And today a lady was snippy because we didn't have more flavors of those tiny little blue Bunny ice creams that cost a dollar.

This message was last edited by the user at 05:01, Sun 26 July.

OceanLake
 supporter, 1123 posts
Sun 26 Jul 2020
at 07:40
I'm sorry I can't get your tiny ice cream cups
I live in western Oregon. We've had no shortages; guess it's the location.
Brianna
 member, 2221 posts
Sun 26 Jul 2020
at 11:12
I'm sorry I can't get your tiny ice cream cups
People get snippy about the silliest things, don't they?  I'm in Canada, high risk because of my age, so I've only been inside a grocery store once since March 17th.  Last time I was, there was still a shortage of the kind of high fibre bread I need, and the paper products aisle (toilet paper, tissues, paper towels) was empty.  I have no idea whether there was ice cream or not!  And I still don't know what is short, unless it's one of the things I order and can't get.  Like dry mustard??  Is someone hoarding that, or is the supplier having issues?  But that wasn't a big deal, we just made something else than what we'd intended it for.  For me the problem is the cost of ordering online (in general it's a neat system, I place the order and a few days later my husband picks it up.  Parks, let's them know he's there, and they deliver to the car, no contact at all).  For instance, normally I would pick my meat depending on price, availability, and size of package.  Now, I'm not sure what I'm going to get so I have to order a few more things than we actually need, then sometimes do get them all, in larger or smaller packages, at higher prices (never seem to be lower unless it's because the package is much smaller).  We are starting to get more fresh vegetables now that local farms have more crops ready, but again I'm ordering blind, and sometimes end up with less for more money than I was expecting.
Harley Quinn
 member, 40 posts
Sun 26 Jul 2020
at 14:22
I'm sorry I can't get your tiny ice cream cups
In reply to cheezeoflegends (msg # 1584):

Most of my food is fine to get but the one thing I look forward to most every week is the frozen pepperoni pizza I treat myself to, fruiting shortcake is never there anymore. Started getting the four cheese and adding pepperoni to it but that is even out of stock.

All they got left is white chicken and that is running out and I refuse to eat chicken on pizza.



All the above is regard to the one brand I get, I don't like the other brands or they are way to fruiting expensive (if I am going to pay that much I'll get it from a pizza restaurant).

This message was last edited by a moderator, as it was against the ToU, at 15:21, Sun 26 July.

Bell of Wishing
 member, 4 posts
Sun 26 Jul 2020
at 17:22
You can lead a horse to water ...
I feel so powerless as a GM on this website. Today I had to delete a game I had very high hopes for because my players just wouldn't participate. It feels like a drag. I don't know what I could have done differently. My NPCs had personality, my world had secrets to discover, I gave them choices, I was active ...

I just don't understand why you would apply for a game and then barely show your face?! It's frustrating to always have to poke the party with a stick all the time so they will actually react to events (even though I should be the one reacting to their actions but that dynamic apparently works even less). I tried to make it clear to them that I'm not expecting a novel-worthy post - just a general "This is what my character is up to while this is happening" if nothing more.

It makes me feel sad to realize that my campaign is for the trash and that I can't really do anything to save it. D:
Harley Quinn
 member, 41 posts
Sun 26 Jul 2020
at 17:45
You can lead a horse to water ...
In reply to Bell of Wishing (msg # 1588):

I have had that problems on numerous websites. Both as a GM and as a Player. It's a sad fact there are some people are just plain garbage.
cithindril
 member, 65 posts
Sun 26 Jul 2020
at 19:07
You can lead a horse to water ...
In reply to Bell of Wishing (msg # 1588):

I've been playing or GM'ing PBP games for over a decade (here at RPOL and on similar sites) and I've frequently encountered the same problems.  It can be very discouraging, especially as a GM, since running a game requires an enormous investment of time and creative energy.  The anonymity of this format and the lack of any consequences for players who suddenly disappear unfortunately makes the problem a common one.

I've had some success both as a player and as a GM but those experiences are definitely the exception and not the rule.  The majority of games will unfortunately fail within the first few weeks or months.  So why do I keep going?  Because when a game hits and you get a group of dedicated and motivated players, it's some of the best role playing and storytelling in any format.  I've also made some close friends along the way.

Here are just a couple of my additional thoughts to maximize the chance for success (and you're probably already doing these things):

- Clearly communicate your expectations up front and have your potential players verbalize their commitment to active participation and to letting you know when they decide to leave your game.

- Anticipate significant player turnover, especially during the first couple of months, and plan for it.  Construct your story in a modular way so that it's easier to remove inactive characters and introduce new ones.

- Ensure that your in-character posts always advance the story to a dramatic point where the characters have to take an action, make a decision, respond to dialogue, etc.

- If you're using a particular game system to run your game, ignore the published initiative rules and always make initiative in the order of player posting so that no one ever has to wait for someone else to post before them.

- Encourage players to make contingent in-character posts (i.e. if one thing happens, I do this and if not I do this other thing).

- Encourage players to make any dice rolls (if you're using them) and include them in their narrative posts.

- Communicate extensively with your players.  Answer questions immediately and try to respond to all posts as soon as possible (in or out of character).  Address any concerns in a fair and positive fashion either in your OOC forum or via PM.

- Develop a list of players who have been active, constructive participants and approach them privately when you have an idea for a new game to see if they're interested.

- Don't be afraid to politely remove players who are disruptive or non-responsive.  I usually give non-posting players three chances before removing their game access (twice via PM and then one final contact through rMail).

- Don't be afraid to suspend your game if the players fizzle out on you.  Be grateful for any successful role playing that occurred and the enjoyment that you got from it and move on to the next idea.  You can always hold the game in an inactive status for a couple of months and then re-solicit for new players.  Sometimes you can get lucky and successfully relaunch a dormant game.

Anyway, I doubt any of that is particularly helpful but that's been my approach so far.  Deciding to run a game is a significant undertaking and often involves challenges and disappointments.  We do it because we love it and the only way forward is to keep trying to improve as a storyteller and hope to find players who will make the effort worthwhile.
cithindril
 member, 66 posts
Sun 26 Jul 2020
at 19:30
You can lead a horse to water ...
In reply to Bell of Wishing (msg # 1588):

I took a quick look at your game and you're already doing most of the things that I mentioned above.

However, it looks like you closed your RTJ window pretty quickly (you stated "in less than 10 hours" in the looking for players thread).  From my experience, I've never had much success with a first come / first served RTJ approach and I would recommend leaving your applications open for a bit longer and having a dialogue with your prospective players before making your final player/character selections.

Otherwise, it looks like you have a good start to your story and I wish you the best in keeping it going!

This message was last edited by the user at 19:30, Sun 26 July.

Bell of Wishing
 member, 5 posts
Sun 26 Jul 2020
at 19:53
You can lead a horse to water ...
I guess I should have kept them coming before making final decisions. But now I already have a party underway and I'm way too invested into their characters. I resurrected the game hoping to make amends and get everyone on the same page again but I don't have high hopes ...

My first game should have been some kind of dungeon crawler where anybody can just tackle some selfmade dungeons off the bat without any story or preparations. Would've helped me see who is actually active and who isn't.
OceanLake
 supporter, 1124 posts
Mon 27 Jul 2020
at 00:17
You can lead a horse to water ...
IMO, some people like to create characters, often the more exotic the better. And the "exoticness" of the character and the chances of the player dropping out correlate.*

Idea: If you wish personality and character interaction to  be prominent, have a character interaction scenario set up off the bat. Offbeat: Have them start out at a party playing charades.

*Or there's this in lore: Original D&d applicant: "I want to pay an elf."

GM: "Do you have some details in mind?"

Applicant: "I want to pay an elf with a sword."
cheezeoflegends
 member, 4 posts
Mon 27 Jul 2020
at 01:34
You can lead a horse to water ...

This message was deleted by the user at 01:50, Mon 27 July.

Eur512
 member, 816 posts
Mon 27 Jul 2020
at 15:41
Re: You can lead a horse to water ...
cithindril:
- Anticipate significant player turnover, especially during the first couple of months, and plan for it.  Construct your story in a modular way so that it's easier to remove inactive characters and introduce new ones.


I ran at least one game in which the turnover was so high that the entire original cast was replaced.  Strangely, the quest the original cast began continued.
Ski-Bird
 subscriber, 114 posts
Tue 28 Jul 2020
at 00:37
You can lead a horse to water ...
cithindril:
- Anticipate significant player turnover ... Construct your story in a modular way so that it's easier to remove inactive characters and introduce new ones.


I thought your advice was very good, Cithindril. This one stuck out the most to me (because I hadn't quite thought of it that way yet).

I've definitely been bit before by weaving things into a tale that have been tied only to a particular character ... only to have that player drop.