I'm thinking a slightly modified version of Prime Runners for character generation.  Bear with me, there's a madness to my method; and I'm open to feedback about this.

First off, you're not going to have access to the contacts from 2070; so we'll scratch that off the list.  I'm expecting each character to be able to handle themselves in a fight, as the opening I'm leaning toward is boiling in the direction of the runner team being in the wrong place at the wrong time (experimental weapon test, anyone?), which is how they end up being moved backward in time.

I'd also like to point out that you're not going to be taking more than you can carry into the past, so it's going to be a "use or loose" situation.

Because you're not going to have access to additional (cyber/bioware) augmentations or the more advanced gear from 2070, I'm thinking of the following:
Magic Users gain a karma pool of 120 point which they can spend.  They may use it on new spells (limit 10), foci, initiation, and an ally spirit.
Mundanes will have their resources quadrupled (x4) with no availablity limit on cyberware and bioware.  Note that is only for 'ware; you'll have to use the Restricted Gear Quality for anything else.

I'm going to pick a few of the characters now and finish up selection tomorrow morning after my subconscious tells me which ones I'm supposed to have.

Hi everyone. Angel 316 here, your ever helpful and totally (never mind what the media says) trustworthy Technomancer. Rumours that I or my kin melt minds, steal the girls or bring down the economy are totally exaggerated.

I'm planning on being your 'support character'. If it needs building or making or hacking, then I'm your girl. If it needs shooting or sneaking past or chatting ... then ... well ...I have all the combat skills you might expect from someone who learnt how to walk about a month ago, and is still coming to terms with the fact they are a person and not a computer

AKA: over the tops lads, I'll make the tea!

--

Character options:
I'm basically a wizard in terms of rewards. Submersion = Initiation. Complex forms = Spells. I'd like to be included in the wizard box. (What is this equipment of which you speak: I have the clothes I am standing in)

It does seem a little generous to wizards. All that said the rewards of initiation/submersion are awesome and character defining and it would be nice to be a mature character at start. If I was a wizard or physical adept I would be drooling at this. An ally spirit... wow!

Could I suggest you do a sliding scale for mundanes:

• A in resources: as in
• B in resources: x4 and a little karma
• C in resources: still x4 and some more karma
• and so on

This message was last edited by the player at 18:46, Thu 03 Aug 2023.

In reply to Angel 316 (msg # 4):

That's why it's important that I hear what everyone thinks before setting things in stone.  I'm wanting to hear what everyone thinks.    I'm leaning toward using the Sum to Ten generation method, so you can customize a bit better.

And finally, I'd like everyone (yes, everyone!) to have some sort of combat skill.  Time-wise, leveling a skill from 0 to 4 takes ten days of training.  So...yeah.

That said...I'll try not to weigh in until there's been sufficient round about to get everyone's input and a general feel for how the group would like things to develop.

In reply to Angel 316 (msg # 4):

Hello! I'm Sunshine, your resident spell slinger and former corporate mage slave! Formerly in the entertainment business who draws her knowledge of shadowrunning from those pulpy trashy novels making it seem one of glitz, glamour and excitement. Sadly Sunshine's upbringing and being able to astrally perceive from a young age has given her some odd ideas about spirits. She is steadfastly against summoning and binding them feeling it is like enslaving a friend and much prefers to talk to spirits.

It is a question of just how specialised we each are going to be in in our roles? Physical weapon of choice is the trusty shotgun for those up close encounters. After tinkering with my build, I'll be taking the traditional mage spells of trid phantasm, heal, levitate, magic fingers and improved reflexes which still gives me room for some more depending on what else is needed.

Do we have a dedicated face? Also I would be careful not to travel too far back in time, since a technomancer needs the matrix, and too far back, the awakening wont have happened and magic just plain ol wont work.

Greetings all. I'll be playing Raven, a mystic adept thief freelance acquisition specialist. I imagined her specializing in lots and lots of utility spells as well as sneaky adept powers and skills, with no real skills regarding spirits or in social areas (though that might be amenable to change if, say, nobody else brings any social skills to the table either). As for combat, she'll be reasonably competent with a gun and might even have a combat spell or two, though flashy stuff like that is not really her style.

I'll add my own thoughts about how the game concept will affect character creation: (fake) SINs will be useless, and any quality regarding SINs won't really do anything either. These are all tied to databases in the future, and as such simply will not work. Also, any cash left after character creation might as well be monopoly money.

In reply to Sunshine (msg # 6):

Hmm, we seem to have a bit of an overlap here. I was thinking of taking that quality, Dedicated Spellslinger I think it's called, to give myself more spells at the expense of being able to use summoning skills. Is that what you were planning as well?

Hi Raven and Sunshine. Nice to meet you! Just a thought for the two of you: if you get attribute boosting spells (I assume we still have them in SR5) you could assist enormously with my hacking.

@Character creation/ karma points or resources
Sure. Really like the way you did that. I'm hungry to see what the technomancer can do with the submersion (looks loads of fun) and if I was a mage I would be going OMG!!!! in a good way. Adds a lot to the enjoyment. Let's see how our mundane's feel. I would be going OMG!!! in a good way if I had resources A.

@Character creation
I don't have the rule book that explains sum to ten. I do really quite like the character I can create with the priority system (she's awesome and exactly what I want), so given an option I'd prefer to do that. I don't want to spend more money on the game (already spent >$60 on the core rulebook and the hacking rulebook). Perhaps I missed the rule in the core rulebook, but I looked quite hard.

@Combat skills
As for combat skills... I think we don't all need to be the same. If you watch The Italian Job for example everyone except the Napster (their decker) was pretty OK in combat. He wasn't. Angel 316 even if she had combat skills (which her backstory doesn't allow her to get) would fall and hug the ground in the event of a fire fight. There's no way she'd shoot someone. And given she just learnt to walk a couple of weeks ago, she's not going to be punching, kicking or stabbing (which she wouldn't do even if she had the skills).

Angel's not useless in the event of a fight (the buffs she brings are significant and will make our best people even better, and she can do hacking and stuff) but the others will need to defend and protect her. I think that's a positive thing in a game like this. We aren't islands, we are a team. Having weaknesses like this makes for a better story.

I can see a rigger coccoon in her future! And perhaps drones. Even today we have very good drones, so in 203x we'll have even better. And maybe one of the mages can summon a spirit to protect her if they are somewhere else.

@Timeline
In answer to the 'time' question: I think that's covered. It's sometime in 203x I think. Any time after about 1990 though and we have a good internet. Anytime after 2015 and we have wifi almost everywhere. Technomancers can do fine in a world with 'just the internet' instead of the matrix. With the right echoes we can even make our own matrix. I think we have a matrix anyway (not 100% up on the timeline).

@Social skills
Nope. Don't have any. First met a human in the flesh 4 weeks ago. Still working on walking...

@Areas covered

• Building / repairing things & people (although mages with heal spells will be better. Decent medicine skill though).
• Hacking / computers
• Buffing people in combat (their guns are more accurate)
• Probably OK at dealing with enemy drones

This message was last edited by the player at 10:59, Fri 04 Aug 2023.

Ironside is supposed to be a troll cyber samurai bullet soak.

So he should have enough cyber/armor/weapons for just about anyone :P

That said if we're desperate for a face with the 120 karma for magic users I can make a rather wicked adept face who will charm your socks off.....

But I was going to be the trog wall of flesh with riot shield etc.

Rofl.

I love you already Mr Ironsides. Wouldn't want to change anything. Troll cyber samurai kick butt... And you will be glad to know I can keep your cyber wäre ticking over just fine. .

Well Ironsides is supposed to have been a athlete struck by a rare nerve disease turned corporate experiment, turned corporate black ops then basically used as a scape goat.

Depending on when things went side ways I can see him being involved with Angel either as part of the experiment together or him breaking her out on his way out....assuming they were from the same corp.

I was thinking Ares but will slide either way :D

In my backstory I hired some runners to free me. If you were in the same place you could easily have been 'part of the plan'.  I don't think we would have met physically though: I was in VR the whole time. Pod girl.

hmm... suppose you were the 'mobile team' that me and the other Angels were being trained to support?

That would work quite nicely. And explain why we are together.
This message was last edited by the player at 17:59, Fri 04 Aug 2023.

There ended up being A LOT of overlap on the magic side.  I ended up with a total of 8 character submissions: 3 were mundane, 2 adepts (regular or mystic), and the rest were full mages.   So, yeah; there's a definite lack of muscle in the group.

I'd appreciate it if you'd work out the details related to character creation and roles in group here; while sticking to backstory and the other role-playing aspects in the other.  Disclaimer in place...I'm looking forward to seeing how everyone fleshes things out.

I'll do a double post instead of an edit.

The amount of resources given is deliberately on the high side.   As Chummer and I have already (briefly) discussed, it's intended to cover all the stuff that you'd normally get during the course of a campaign.    It's not like you can just pop down to the nearest street clinic for upgrades or call your fixer/talismonger/arms dealer for more gear.

I've done some pricing on various augmentation builds, so I'll share a few thoughts on that subject before going back to my corner to lurk.  The multiplier for mundane resources is copied from the Merc/Military alternate campaign.   The number for additional karma popped into my head, rather than copied from elsewhere.

So, as I'm sure everyone knows; the real issue with cyber/bioware enhancements is the availability rating rather than the nuyen cost.  A full deltaware cyborg (limbs, torso, head) with the eyes, ears, and wired reflexes runs around 1.8 million.  The flip side is that most of the parts have an availability in the 20s.

As for the magic side; I'm anticipating that it's going to be nearly impossible to either create a ally spirit (due to the weaker "mana field") and additional foci are out of the question (unless you create them yourselves).

In reply to Storyteller (msg # 14):

I'll see what Sunshine has in mind for her character. I do not mind some overlap myself (and it's not like having two characters with a heal spell is a bad thing), just that every character has at least one specific niche where they excel at. Teamwork and all that.

Going through the build for my character, what's the GM's and the group's opinion on the Code of Honor quality? Would something like "Don't harm the innocent; No wetwork" work in this game? Or would it be too much of a hassle?
This message was last edited by the player at 21:14, Fri 04 Aug 2023.

I'm happy with the resource level, after all 120 Karma for a mage/adept is a big, big bonus.

Ironsides is likely to get Move-by-wire and avoid full cyborg stuff, that said biocompatibility is in his future so he will be stuffed to the gills with cyber/bioware so I need every Nuyen, particularly if I'm pushing troll into that although the add to ten does help.

The Move-by-wire has the skill box plugged in and a bunch of skill programs will be on my shopping list, it's easier since I don't need to worry about vehicles etc.

How is everyone else going to be vehicle wise? Because I'm hoping to afford the skillwires for helicopters and planes as well.

Won't know till I actually start spending but the plan at the moment is to get as much bang for my buck flexibility wise and focus on filling gaps.

I'm thinking batons, staves, riot shield, heavy armor, assualt rifles will be the primary equipment I'll be focusing on then throwing in a sniper rifle and some heavy weapons (grenade launchers for sure) to round him out so he can carry whatever is needed as far as fire power for the group is.

Also, as a thought for muscle, the possession version of spirits can turn a mage into muscle, especially if your do some submersion to get full control.

The issue, thematically, with bringing someone with cyberware into this style of game is that they will stand out. ALOT. in the past. Since their cyberware will be chrome that is more advanced than what is available for that time period and better quality. Plus if you want to get that chrome maintained - does the tech and parts even exist in the past and what would be the cost?

Plus you better find someone who won't be willing to get you turned into a slab of meat and metal for the nuyen that the futuristic designs will bring in. IMO thats why mages were so favoured for this game type - they are more self sufficient and magic is magic is magic no matter the time period.

That said, do we have any Face style character concepts that have been added? So we have two support-class mages with a fair bit of overlap both of which seem to focus primarily on spellcasting, we have our matrix guru and we have a troll street sam. We still could do with a Face style character.

Regarding the overlap - my character background lends itself to being pure spellcaster, but honestly, conjured spirits can break the game since they can be quite powerful in SR5 (either for or against the players >.>). I suppose I can use some of that 120 karma to learn some more combat orientated spells

Case in point here
Early versions of Move-by-wire (SR3 era) were much more lethal (You were pretty much guaranteed to get TL-X) and expensive and essence intensive and required regular maintenance. I sure hope we have a trustworthy cyberdoc who wont chop you up for spare parts.

I think I do have someone to take care of it, and it's part of my concern with maintaining cyberware, which is why it's important someone can take care of it on our end, at least maintenance issues but I predicted there would be no riggers or deckers for the same reason.

I'm planning on hand-waving just as much as seems practical.  I'm assuming as long as someone in the group has sufficient skill (or can fake it), then you'll be able to adapt what you'll end up being supplied with (or lying around).   Hence my reason for putting the Advanced Runner Pack in the Gear Pack thread.   Assuming everyone has that, hand-waving away regular gear shouldn't be a problem.  I'm not a fan of trying to work out issues with resource scarcity; too much number crunching for too little gain.

Unless you end up taking a drastically different story route than I'm expecting; stuff like ammunition shouldn't be an issue.  I'm just adding the limitation that if you don't start with stuff like APDS ammunition (as an example), you're not getting it later.   Which is one of the two main reasons I put the Gear Packs thread together in the first place, buy what you'll be using and forget about the rest.   I'll add that you won't be in 2070 very long, so more than one month of lifestyle isn't necessary.

I generally agree with Sunshine on the nature of 'ware: Cyberware is obvious, Bioware is subtle.  And there's a lot of overlap between the two.  A lot of the stuff cyberware does (like initiative enhancement), bioware does too.

Good discussion so far. ^_^
This message was last edited by the GM at 21:48, Fri 04 Aug 2023.

Everyone knows you can trust a Technomancer. We're famous for it...


With today's tech you can be rigger. Sure the 'jump in' tech isn't there (although I could probably add it easy enough) but drones are already changing warfare. Fifteen years ago I went to a defence exhibition where there were robots you can throw that could roll and had a built in grenade. Look at what's happening in the Ukraine... drones are everywhere. In ten years time (game starting time) that's going to double down

Go to a toy store and there are a ton of useful things there. You aren't going to be fitting an assault cannon on one, but a few ounces of HE and you don't really need to.

I'm planning on upgrading into drones like this if we get upgrade time.

--

A mix of bioware and tech is good. SR4 had 'mixing rules' I haven't read that bit of SR5 yet. Does it do '1/2 the essence cost of the lesser' there?

Move by wires are frankly GREAT. Skill wires for the win.

--


My experience (with SR 1,3,4 ) is this is more of a theoretical 'could' than a practical 'does'. The drain rules are frankly brutal. You don't get average die. The cost is high. I don't have any experience with SR5

An example: last night I conjured a force three spirit (different game).

Woot! Looks good


Crap. A force three spirit with 4!!! success. That's 8 drain


So I take 2 stun. 1/4 of my capacity. Pretty soon on minues... and that was for a level 3

If you actually use spirits a lot very soon you find that the die are not your friend. That level 5 spirit (the third time you roll it)  will roll 7 successes and that's 14 drain. Sure you have edge but you burn through that too.

I picked force three because they don't go often that wrong. And force 3/4 spirits don't break the game.

The nuyen cost of the materials and the time makes conjuring very expensive. And depending on the edge rules, you will (every time I've tried it) start the actual game with hardly any edge left.

When you start using the spirits you burn through them very quickly is my experience. The conjured spirits are basically a fixed resource on the run, and you don't know if you will need it later...

This could of course be not an issue with unlimited money and downtime. I've never played with the unlimited money option, so it was a really major factor.

Also, what character creation rules are we using? I remember Sum-To-Ten being mentioned, is that with the Standard Priority table or Prime Runners Priority table?